DM Halo Movement: Predicted vs Observed

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the movement of galaxies thought to have dark matter (DM) halos, specifically comparing predicted motion and observed motion. Participants explore the implications of dark matter on galactic rotation velocities and shapes, engaging in conceptual reasoning and analogies to clarify their points.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the predicted motion of galaxies with DM halos would be tighter compared to the observed motion, which appears wider when accounting for dark matter.
  • Others argue that the presence of dark matter leads to a larger rotation velocity at a given distance from the galaxy's center due to increased gravitational force from additional mass.
  • A participant questions whether dark matter affects only the rotational velocity without altering the galactic shape.
  • Another participant responds that dark matter does impact the shape of galaxies, suggesting that it forms a roughly spherical halo while luminous matter tends to form a disk due to energy dissipation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between dark matter and galactic shape, with some asserting that it affects only rotation velocity while others contend it influences the overall structure. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise effects of dark matter on galactic dynamics.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference analogies and conceptual models to illustrate their points, but there are limitations in the assumptions made about the nature of dark matter and its interactions. The discussion does not resolve the complexities surrounding the effects of dark matter on galaxy formation and dynamics.

jhe1984
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Okay - and this is most likely a gross oversimplification - but (for galaxies thought to have DM halos), the predicted motion/predicted spin of the galaxy would be much tighter, while the observed motion (with the DM accounted for) is actually much wider?

Would this be equivalent to spinning a yo-yo above your head at one power level (representing non-dm galaxy mov't) and then adding a lot of weight to that same yo-yo (representing DM galaxy) but still spinning it at the same power level (so it now goes a lot wider and slower)?
 
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jhe1984 said:
Okay - and this is most likely a gross oversimplification - but (for galaxies thought to have DM halos), the predicted motion/predicted spin of the galaxy would be much tighter, while the observed motion (with the DM accounted for) is actually much wider?

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. At a given distance from the center of a the galaxy, the presence of dark matter leads to a larger rotation velocity. This is because the force of gravity at that radius is stronger (more mass interior) and so a star must have more angular momentum to support a circular orbit.


Would this be equivalent to spinning a yo-yo above your head at one power level (representing non-dm galaxy mov't) and then adding a lot of weight to that same yo-yo (representing DM galaxy) but still spinning it at the same power level (so it now goes a lot wider and slower)?

Well, no, it would be sort of analogous if you left the yoyo the same size and increased the tension of the rope (to simulate the dark matter) by spinning the yoyo faster.
 
SpaceTiger said:
I'm not quite sure what you mean here. At a given distance from the center of a the galaxy, the presence of dark matter leads to a larger rotation velocity.


Okay, so are you saying that dark matter leads only to a larger rotational velocity, but not necessarily to a different galactic shape (than if DM weren't there)?
 
jhe1984 said:
Okay, so are you saying that dark matter leads only to a larger rotational velocity, but not necessarily to a different galactic shape (than if DM weren't there)?

It does impact the shape, but not in the way you're thinking. Dark matter is thought to be very weakly interacting, in which case it would form a roughly spherical halo. Luminous matter, however, dissipates energy very easily, so it tends to form a disk. See here for more discussion of spherical vs. disk distributions:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=93098"
 
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