Do All Digit Sequences in Pi Occur Equally Often?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the question of whether all digit sequences in the value of Pi occur equally often as more decimal places are considered. Participants explore the implications of Pi being a normal number and the uniform distribution of its digits, while also considering the nature of digit sequences and their potential occurrences.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if Pi is a normal number, then digit sequences should be uniformly distributed, although this remains unproven.
  • Others argue that despite extensive calculations of Pi's digits, no special repetition has been observed, suggesting skepticism about the uniform occurrence of sequences.
  • A participant mentions the idea of sequences indicating convergence, questioning the implications of such sequences in the context of Pi's non-repeating nature.
  • There is a suggestion to explore the statistical properties of Pi's digits using goodness of fit tests for uniform distribution.
  • Some participants speculate on the likelihood of finding specific sequences, like '123456789' or '333333333', within the known digits of Pi.
  • A later reply discusses the indistinguishability of finite sequences from Pi and those derived from other mathematical processes, such as division.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the uniform distribution of digit sequences in Pi, with some supporting the hypothesis of normality and others questioning it. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these ideas.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the unproven status of Pi being a normal number and the lack of definitive evidence regarding the uniform distribution of its digits. The discussion also touches on the nature of finite sequences and their potential origins.

saddlestone-man
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TL;DR
Is any sequence of digits equally likely in the value of Pi?
As the value of Pi is taken to more decimal places, does any sequence of digits become equally likely?

I'm thinking of sequences like ...123456789.... ...333333... and so on.

best regards ... Stef
 
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saddlestone-man said:
TL;DR Summary: Is any sequence of digits equally likely in the value of Pi?

As the value of Pi is taken to more decimal places, does any sequence of digits become equally likely?

I'm thinking of sequences like ...123456789.... ...333333... and so on.

best regards ... Stef
It is supposed that ##\pi## is a normal number, where the digits are uniformly distributed. This is, however, unproven.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_number
 
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PeroK said:
It is supposed that ##\pi## is a normal number, where the digits are uniformly distributed. This is, however, unproven.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_number
Not only that, pi has been calculated out to an enormous number of decimal places and no special repetition has been observed. As @PeroK said, nothing is proven so It may well happen at some point but there's no reason to believe that it will and the evidence so far is against it.

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Carl Sagan used something like that as a plot device in his novel Contact. The protagonist, Ellie Arroway finds proof of her trip only in the digits of PI in some base where they discover a hidden message in the image of a circle embedded in the sequence.

Pi is a transcendental number and has a non-repeating decimal sequence. It is assumed to be evenly distributed across all the digits but there's no proof as yet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi

I imagine it would be a fun exercise to explore.
 
phinds said:
I would assume that in the first 105 trillion known digits with a hypothesized uniform distribution, a short sequence like '123456789' or '333333333' already appears somewhere in the 105 trillion. I haven't calculated the probability, assuming a uniform distribution.
 
Last edited:
Many thanks for the answers.

I wondered that there may be some sequences of digits (say 1,000 repetitions of the same digit, or something like 123123123123123123 ....) which would indicate that the value had converged, which of course in the case of Pi is impossible.
 
saddlestone-man said:
Many thanks for the answers.

I wondered that there may be some sequences of digits (say 1,000 repetitions of the same digit, or something like 123123123123123123 ....) which would indicate that the value had converged, which of course in the case of Pi is impossible.
By 'indicate that the value had converged', do you mean 'fool you into thinking that the value had converged'?
 
I think what I'm saying is .... say you had two long sequences of numbers, one of which was extracted from the value of Pi and the other which was the tail end of a large long division (whose answer did not have an infinite number of digits): would you be able to tell the difference?
 
No. Any finite sequence of digits within ##\pi## could be from the division of the integer represented by that sequence by the appropriate power of 10.
 
  • #10
Since this is in the Statistics section, maybe you can look up tabulated data and do a ##\chi^2## goodness of fit for the uniform distribution on ##\{0,1,2,..., 9\}##?
 

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