Do All Fractals Exhibit Exact Self-Similarity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of self-similarity in fractals, specifically questioning whether all fractals exhibit exact self-similarity and exploring the conditions under which this might occur. The scope includes theoretical considerations and definitions related to fractals.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that many simple fractals, such as the Sierpinski triangle and Cantor set, exhibit exact self-similarity.
  • There is a proposal to define a "simplicity limit" that could determine the threshold beyond which exact self-similarity does not occur.
  • A participant questions whether fractal self-similarity scales by rational numbers, suggesting that non-self-similar fractals might scale by irrational numbers.
  • Another participant challenges the idea of scaling, providing an example of a fractal that is exactly self-similar but can scale by an irrational number.
  • A question is raised about the Mandelbrot set and whether it exhibits exact self-similarity, along with a query about measuring proximity to self-similarity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the existence and conditions of exact self-similarity in fractals, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without consensus.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions involve assumptions about definitions of self-similarity and simplicity limits, which may not be universally agreed upon. The mathematical examples provided may depend on specific interpretations of scaling and self-similarity.

Loren Booda
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Does self-similarity of fractals ever represent an exact, albeit scaled down, reproduction?
 
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Unless I misunderstand what you mean, yes many simple fractals are of this type. See for instance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sierpinski_triangle" .
 
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and cantor set :D
 
Can one define a "simplicity limit" beyond which exact self-similarity does not occur?
 
Loren Booda said:
Can one define a "simplicity limit" beyond which exact self-similarity does not occur?

Care to be more specific? Otherwise, I could define the simplicity limit as "the fractal is exactly self-similar" and get the desired result.
 
CRGreathouse said:
Care to be more specific? Otherwise, I could define the simplicity limit as "the fractal is exactly self-similar" and get the desired result.

Here's a first attempt at specificity:

Does fractal self-similarity scale by rational numbers, and fractals that are not self-similar scale by irrational numbers?
 
Loren Booda said:
Here's a first attempt at specificity:

Does fractal self-similarity scale by rational numbers, and fractals that are not self-similar scale by irrational numbers?

No, since the fractal generated as the limit of

F0 = triangle with unit sides
Fn = F(n-1) plus triangle with sides of length x^n
where all triangles are oriented similarly and share a common point

is exactly self-similar but scales by x which can be chosen to be irrational.
 
Does a Mandelbrot set ever have exact self-similarity, and if not, is there a measure of how close the set comes to it?

My original question should have been: do all fractals have some presence of exact self-similarity?
 
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