Do Black Holes Emit Heat Due to Movement?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between black holes, thermodynamics, and thermal radiation. Participants explore whether black holes emit heat due to their movement and the implications of thermodynamic laws on this phenomenon.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions if physical movement can occur without thermal radiation, suggesting that since black holes are not stationary, they should radiate heat.
  • Another participant asserts that energy transformations lead to heat loss only during collisions, implying that black holes may not emit heat without such interactions.
  • A different participant raises the idea that there may be no collisions within black holes, questioning the relationship between movement and collision.
  • One participant challenges the assumption that all particles with mass are in constant movement, indicating a potential misunderstanding of thermodynamics.
  • Another participant clarifies that the definition of temperature applicable to black holes relates to entropy rather than traditional kinetic energy definitions.
  • One participant expresses agreement with the clarification about black hole temperature and notes the distinction between temperature and entropy in previous discussions.
  • Another participant agrees with the notion that while black holes may emit radiation, such emissions cannot escape the event horizon due to gravitational constraints.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between movement, thermal radiation, and the nature of black holes. There is no consensus on whether black holes emit heat due to their movement or how thermodynamic principles apply in this context.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference definitions of temperature and entropy that may not align with traditional thermodynamic concepts, indicating a potential gap in understanding. The discussion also highlights the complexity of black hole physics, which intertwines quantum mechanics and general relativity.

Hippasos
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I have been recently wondering about black holes and the laws of
thermodynamics.

So I would like to ask:
Can there be physical movement without thermal radiation in other words loss of
energy in thermal form?

Every particle in the universe that have mass will be in movement. I am
in belief that black holes/singularity is not stationary objects so if
they are in movement they should be radiating heat? If there is no
particle without mass then there are no stationary particles in the
universe?

Hawking radiation equals thermal radiation and radiated energy from the
black hole in this case? That would mean: E=mc2+Hawking radiation then?

I bet this have been discussed earlier so if you can point me a link to an answer i will look there...

Thanks!
 
Last edited:
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As one of the laws of thermodynamics states, each transformation of energy results in a loss of heat.

Therefor something with kinetic energy will only give off energy when that energy changes form, i.e collides with something.
Ofcourse this is not taking into account the energy already being given off by the mass itself.
 
So is it safe to say then that there are no collisions between the particles inside the black hole? 0 friction?

Can we say there is no collision without movement and backwards there are no movement without collision?
 
Last edited:
Hippasos said:
I have been recently wondering about black holes and the laws of
thermodynamics.

So I would like to ask:
Can there be physical movement without thermal radiation in other words loss of
energy in thermal form?

Every particle in the universe that have mass will be in movement. I am
in belief that black holes/singularity is not stationary objects so if
they are in movement they should be radiating heat? If there is no
particle without mass then there are no stationary particles in the
universe?


Where did you get the idea that "every particle in the universe that has mass will be in movement?

It appears to me that you may have some fundamental misconceptions about thermodynamics that need to be addressed judging from the above statement :-(.

The short version: While some sources such as http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/temper.html#c1 state

A convenient operational definition of temperature is that it is a measure of the average translational kinetic energy associated with the disordered microscopic motion of atoms and molecules

this is not the definition of "temperature" used to describe the "temperature" of black holes.

The definition of "temperature" that is applicable to black holes, and that serves as the general definition of the term is the equation relating the rate at which energy is converted into entropy.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/seclaw.html#c4

[tex]\Delta S = \frac{\Delta Q}{T}[/tex]

Black hole entropy requires quantum mechanics and general relativity to understand, though a simple argument that suggests black holes have entropy is that if entropy always increases, when an object with entropy falls into a black hole that the entropy of the black hole must increase.
 
Pervect -

Thanks for a good answer.

In the thread 'Are black holes cold' none of the answers implied that temperature of a black hole was in any way different from the first definition of temperature above.

This answer clears up the correct but very incomplete information Janus gave in that thread, which made no distinction about temperature/entropy. My area is Population Biology, not GR.
 
Hippasos said:
I have been recently wondering about black holes and the laws of
thermodynamics.

So I would like to ask:
Can there be physical movement without thermal radiation in other words loss of
energy in thermal form?

Every particle in the universe that have mass will be in movement. I am
in belief that black holes/singularity is not stationary objects so if
they are in movement they should be radiating heat? If there is no
particle without mass then there are no stationary particles in the
universe?

Hawking radiation equals thermal radiation and radiated energy from the
black hole in this case? That would mean: E=mc2+Hawking radiation then?

I bet this have been discussed earlier so if you can point me a link to an answer i will look there...

Thanks!

i totally agree with u . but the radiations emmited by the black hole cannot escape its event horizon due to its high gravity.more or less there r rotating as well as non rotating black holes
 

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