Do M or string theory imply a lower limit to size?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the implications of M theory and string theory regarding the existence of a lower limit to size in the context of quantum gravity. Participants explore whether these theories can accommodate a continuous space or if they necessitate a discrete structure that limits information density.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Debate/contested, Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant references Smolin's assertion that M theory cannot describe a continuous space where infinite information can be packed into any volume, seeking current opinions on this view.
  • Another participant suggests that the limitation on information density may stem from general principles of quantum mechanics, applicable to any theory of quantum gravity, including Loop Quantum Gravity and Non-Commutative Geometry.
  • A participant expresses skepticism about the rigor of statements made by physicists, questioning whether Smolin's views might have evolved since 2001 and if they reflect a broader trend in quantum mechanics.
  • Information in physics is mentioned as a developing field, with connections to entropy and quantum mechanics, suggesting a relationship between information theory and the structure of space.
  • One participant believes that Smolin has shifted his perspective in recent years, proposing that the universe will ultimately align with explanations grounded in information theory.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether Smolin's original assertion remains valid and whether the implications of quantum mechanics are universally applicable across theories of quantum gravity. The discussion reflects multiple competing perspectives without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in their understanding and the complexity of proving claims related to information content and discreteness of space. The discussion also highlights the evolving nature of theoretical perspectives in the field.

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In his 2001 Three Roads to Quantum Gravity, on its p.l66, Smolin says, "M theory, if it exists, cannot describe a world in which space is continuous and one can pack an infinite amount of information into any volume, no matter how small." As a lay person, I'm hoping to get an informed opinion as to whether that is still considered to be the invariable case, either in M theory or in any other extension of string theory that may controvert it.
 
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As far as I can tell, this is more a consequence of general quantum mechanics principles and is true in any* theory of quantum gravity, rather than being specific to String Theory.

* at least in Loop Quantum Gravity, but I think also in Non-Commutative Geometry.

To clarify: I'm pretty sure what I said is true of discreteness of space, but I wouldn't know how to prove it for information content.
 
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Yeah, I had thought it was a QM thing too, and, after one or two recent disappointments about the rigor of statements by major physicists, I'm just wanting to make sure Smolin (a leader in LQG) might not have been "unintentionally trying" to expand QM's "market share" of thesis writers, etc. If he wasn't, I was thinking there might have been developments since 2001 that could have changed the view he was presenting, which seems to have been based on units called "string bits", that I'm figuring might have been a sort of workaround toward reality, just as "limits" in calculus appear (to me) to be an approach toward infinity that never quite gets there, even if they cover more of the road than any alternative. (I didn't take calculus, and I'm DEFINITELY not trying to impugn the efforts of all you millions who did; my hat's off to you!)
 
I haven't had much of a look at it but there seems to be a whole field or at least subfield developping around information in physics - the media tag for it is "it from bit", you might want to google that. But apart from that, information is closely related to entropy and there's a lot on entropy and information in QM/QG.
 
It appears, IMO, Smolin has moved away from that view over the past few years. Ultimately, I believe the universe will submit to an explanation consistent with information theory.
 

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