HAYAO said:
In the end, if we completely reject determinism, we end up rejecting the scientific approach to predicting human behavior, which data clearly shows that human behavior can be predicted fairly well (by factoring in personality traits, IQs, upbringing, genetics, etc). There are (overwhelmingly) more empirical evidence in experimental psychology, brain science, and biology to suggest human are fully deterministic in their behavior than the opposite position.
I disagree, the reason it is "scientific" to claim that these environmental factors impact human nature in a deterministic way is simply because most people cannot overcome their depression or laziness if given "bad cards" but there are plenty of examples on the contrary where folks have used free will against all odds and overcome the harshest of obstacles even in the absence of any motivation (like a prize or money etc).
Here just a few examples, Bach the great composer was deaf at the end of his life, yet he used his teeth to clamp onto his piano and learned to recognize notes by sound frequency.
The American writer Helen Keller was blind and deaf after a unknown illness when she was just a child, she learned to speak and hear sounds afterwards and became a writer. I'm sure that was not easy for her yet she had that motivation within her that many let go of even with perfect sight and hearing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Keller
I know people who have given up on life with 10 times lesser problems. Determinism? No, free will!
Now this is a story worth telling , During the German siege of what was then called Leningrad , there was a seed bank named Pavlovsk Experimental station which had a large collection of various seeds that scientists had gathered there in case of need.
https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129499099
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/sep/20/campaign-russia-pavlovsk-seed-bank
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavlovsk_Experimental_Station
During the siege people quickly ran out of food, it was a harsh Russian winter back then it was basically the closest thing to hell one could imagine.
The scientists at the seed bank decided to protect the collection both from starving people as well as themselves. Sit back and think for a second what level of self determination that would involve. They chose to die for a goal that was not even certain against every imaginable reason to survive and definitely against any "evolutionary" instinct.
Here in my country there were folks who back in WW2 decided to hide and save Jews from Nazi extermination, they had families and they knew that if they were to be caught both them and their families would be murdered and yet they chose to do it anyway.
There are examples like these throughout history and to me that is the highest proof of the existence of free will , a proof that no MRI or Xray or EEG will ever be able to disprove.
HAYAO said:
On a side note, philosophically speaking, free-will goes in loop and fails itself logically. For example, let's say we have to choose freely whether to eat an apple or an orange right now at this moment. I can choose an apple because either I like them better, or because I ate an orange last night and wasn't "feeling for it", or etc. The point is, if free-will really existed, we should be able to decide if we like apples better, or control "feeling for it". Basically, free-will should be able to free-will the free-will, and that free-will should be able to free-will that. How far can we go with this? Any reason you try to come up for choosing the apple is uncontrollable and predetermined.
Again I disagree, not everything within your physical body has to be about free will, whenever a human feels the need to urinate, for example, has nothing to do with free will, we are both biological as well as consciousness entities, mixing up biological needs with consciousness has no point in explaining either. You can have both biological urges that "run in the background" and free will on top of those urges that you use to apply to the more important parts of life like choosing to save a Jewish person during a nazi attack.
All I can say is consciousness is not a computation. As is said by Roger Penrose, I don't agree with him on everything but this statement according my understanding is definitely true.
PS. A little bit of opinion if I'm allowed for such so that the members here can better understand my position.
Now I have to say my opinion is biased just as everyone elses, but I want to be honest, I'm a believer , I believe in God and the supernatural, and not because I was raised to believe it, No! I believe because I have had countless paranormal/supernatural experiences in my life, I have documented them as well as talked to folks I know who have had similar experiences. I dislike religion for matters I cannot go into detail here , but for me there is no doubt in my mind of how can a universe seemingly begin from nothing... Now I can;'t expand on this topic as it won't meet scientific criteria , but I just want to say that if we want to be rational we have to also understand that the universe came before math not the other way around, not all life's mysteries can be solved by trowing them under a scanning electron microscope or a MRI.
Free will exists to my opinion and you won't be able to find it under a diagnostic apparatus because in it's highest form it;s spiritual not physical. The thing you see under a diagnostic apparatus is the physical result of neurons and impulses that are set in motion due to free will, but you can't "measure" will itself.