Do perfect squares exist in physics?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the existence of perfect squares and right angles in various fields of physics, astronomy, and biology, questioning whether these geometric concepts are inherent in nature or solely human constructs. Participants examine examples from crystallography, electromagnetic fields, and other natural phenomena.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that crystals, such as those in the cubic crystal system, exhibit perfect geometric forms, including squares and right angles.
  • Others mention that electric and magnetic fields in light waves are theoretically at right angles to each other, indicating a natural occurrence of orthogonality.
  • There is a discussion about whether mathematical models involving squared distances can be considered as evidence of perfect squares in nature.
  • One participant raises the philosophical question of whether mathematics is a natural phenomenon or a human invention, linking it to the nature of physics itself.
  • Examples of emergent properties in nature, such as geometric patterns in crystal structures and the behavior of suspended weights, are presented as instances where right angles can be observed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with some agreeing on the presence of geometric forms in nature while others debate the philosophical implications of these observations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the nature of mathematics and its relationship to physical reality.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the existence of perfect squares and right angles may depend on definitions and interpretations, and there are unresolved questions about the implications of these geometric forms in different contexts.

mare veen
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Hello, I am a visual artist and currently working on a project about ‘being’. Under the assumption that ‘being’ or ‘to be’ is never square I was wondering if in physics (or astronomy/cosmology/biology etc) perfect squares or 90degrees corners exist. Isn't a square and perfect 90degrees corner only made up by mankind or is it also present in physics?
Anyone out there who can help me? Thank you!
 
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fresh_42 said:
Here's another one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halite

And do the mathematical models which involve squared distances count?
Thank you! I’m mainly in search of visual/imaging proof.
 
Geometry and mathematics in general are used to model nature. Whether mathematics itself is natural or invented is an often debated question that probably has no definite answer. You could, in fact, have a similar debate about whether physics is discovered or invented. But that's more the philosophy of science than science itself.

One example of a right angle in nature is the relationship between the electric and magnetic fields in a light wave. Theoretically, at least, they are at right angles to each other.

Also, the magnetic force on a charged particle is at right angles to its velocity.
 
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PeroK said:
Geometry and mathematics in general are used to model nature. Whether mathematics itself is natural or invented is an often debated question that probably has no definite answer. You could, in fact, have a similar debate about whether physics is discovered or invented. But that's more the philosophy of science than science itself.

One example of a right angle in nature is the relationship between the electric and magnetic fields in a light wave. Theoretically, at least, they are at right angles to each other.

Also, the magnetic force on a charged particle is at right angles to its velocity.

Thank you so much PeroK. Do you have an image or wikipedia site that hows this? Sorry, a bit new to the subject.
 
mare veen said:
Thank you so much PeroK. Do you have an image or wikipedia site that hows this? Sorry, a bit new to the subject.
If you google for "electromagnetic wave" and "lorentz force" and see what images come up.
 
PeroK said:
If you google for "electromagnetic wave" and "lorentz force" and see what images come up.
Thanks!
 
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The regular geometric patterns such as circles, lines and hexagons that emerge in nature are termed "emergent properties". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergence

Crystal structure is probably the best example which explains why they are given mystical properties by the new age. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_structure
Most people use common salt, (NaCl), every day, but they do not realize the cubic perfection.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_chloride
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_structure#Prediction_of_structure

There are also some macro properties where right angles can be seen. For example, if you suspend a weight on a long thread or hair, the thread will form a right angle with the horizon. Gravity works to produce two situations that are orthogonal, one hanging vertical on a thread, the other being the horizontal surface of a liquid.
 

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