Do Permutations Commute Only When Identical?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of permutations, specifically examining the conditions under which the product of two permutations commutes. The original poster presents a statement involving two permutations of the same grade and seeks to demonstrate a relationship with the identity permutation.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the definition of "grade" in the context of permutations and question the meaning of the operation indicated by ab. They provide specific examples of permutations and derive the results of their compositions. Additionally, there are inquiries about the properties of permutations and the reasoning behind specific calculations.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing examples and clarifying definitions. There is a focus on understanding the operations involved in permutations and their implications. Multiple interpretations of the problem are being explored, and guidance is being offered through examples and questions.

Contextual Notes

There is a lack of clarity regarding the term "grade" as it applies to permutations, and participants are attempting to define it. The original poster expresses uncertainty about how to approach the problem, indicating that further clarification may be needed.

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Homework Statement


let there be a and b (b taking any value) two permutation with the same grade .demonstrate that
ab=ba <=> a=e(e=the identical permutation) .

Homework Equations


e=(1234)
(1234)

The Attempt at a Solution


Don't have a clue with what to start/end
 
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How do you define grade?

Which operation does ab indicate?
 
Say you have b= 3 4 2 1 the grade is 4

ab means a*b that means ab=(a(b(1)), a(b(2)), a(b(3))... a(b(n)) )
 
Last edited:
Can you give an example with specific a and b, and derive ab?
 
a= 1 3 4 2
b= 2 4 1 3
ab= 3 2 1 4
 
Can you explain why a(b(1)) = 3?
 
b(1)=2 , a(2)=3 ===>a(b(1))=3
 
I'd start with:

Let
a= a1 a2 a3 a4
and let
b = b1 b2 b3 b4.

Then
ab = a(b(1)) a(b(2)) a(b(3)) a(b(4))
and
ba = b(a(1)) b(a(2)) b(a(3)) b(a(4))

Therefore ab = ba implies
a(b(1)) = b(a(1)) , ..., a(b(4)) = b(a(4)).

What are the properties of permutations?
 

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