Do systems continually evolve?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of whether systems, particularly in quantum mechanics, must continually evolve over time. Participants explore the implications of energy eigenstates, zero point energy, and the differences between classical and quantum perspectives on system evolution.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that a system cannot remain unchanged over time, suggesting that all elements must evolve, even at the subatomic level.
  • Others argue that a quantum system in an energy eigenstate does not evolve in the traditional sense, as only the complex phase of the wave function changes while the probability distributions remain constant.
  • It is noted that macroscopic systems are unlikely to be in an exact energy eigenstate due to the complexity and interactions involved.
  • Participants discuss the implications of zero point energy, suggesting that even at absolute zero, systems like helium remain fluid due to their inherent energy.
  • Some participants question whether there are laws of physics that would prevent a macroscopic system from being in an exact energy eigenstate, highlighting the challenges of controlling all interactions.
  • There is a distinction made between the Heisenberg and Schrödinger pictures of quantum mechanics, with discussions on how each represents system evolution differently.
  • Participants explore the idea that the perspective from which one observes a system can influence the understanding of its evolution.
  • One participant expresses a desire to understand the laws of physics that might govern the evolution of systems, particularly in quantum mechanics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that quantum systems exhibit complex behaviors that challenge the notion of unchanging states, but there is no consensus on whether systems must continually evolve or the implications of being in an energy eigenstate. Multiple competing views remain regarding the nature of system evolution in quantum mechanics.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of energy eigenstates and the challenges of isolating systems from interactions, which complicate the discussion of system evolution.

  • #31
PeterDonis said:
Um, yes. So what? Nobody has been arguing that it is impossible for a system to change if you're not measuring it.

I wasn’t suggesting anyone was. I was just seeking clarification hence the question mark at the end of the sentence.
 

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