Do we exist within a singularity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of whether life is inevitable within the framework of the universe, particularly in relation to the idea of a singularity and the implications of infinite time and combinations of matter. Participants explore philosophical and theoretical implications of these ideas, questioning the nature of existence and the boundaries of our understanding of the universe.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Philosophical

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if matter can align into a finite number of combinations over an infinite amount of time, the existence of life becomes inevitable.
  • Others argue that the universe is finite and may have boundaries, questioning the validity of the idea that it could be contained within a singularity.
  • A participant suggests that "within a singularity" refers to a knowledge horizon beyond current understanding, where time could be infinite and all possibilities must occur.
  • Concerns are raised about the physical and mathematical validity of the definitions being used, with some participants asserting that certain claims lack scientific grounding.
  • There is a discussion about entropy and the implications of an infinitely expanding universe, with one participant stating that matter will not align into finite combinations due to increasing entropy.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the idea that any possibility will eventually happen, citing the improbability of extreme events occurring even over infinite time.
  • Philosophical questions about the nature of existence and the implications of Murphy's law are explored, with varying opinions on whether these ideas are scientifically valid or veer into "woo."

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; multiple competing views remain regarding the nature of the universe, the concept of singularities, and the implications of infinite time on the existence of life.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unresolved definitions of singularity, the implications of entropy in an expanding universe, and the philosophical nature of the questions posed. Some statements rely on assumptions that are not universally accepted.

benjamin1889
So there is a thought experiment about a monkey endless typing random words. Given a large enough amount of time, it is certain that the monkey will end up writing everything that has already been written from start to finish one after another. So this being applied to our current theory of the universe, does this not mean that with matter endlessly aligning into a finite amount of combinations over an infinite amount of time, that the existence of life is inevitable and is the embodiment of a possibility and an incomprehensible volume of time.

That being said we now believe that the universe is finite and does indeed have a boundary. So space time is not infinite, could it be possible that our universe is contained within a singularity. A place where space time is infinite, a place where all possibility become definitive. So life and the universe is merely a thing that could happen and there for had to happen. Murphy’s law!

<<Mentor's Note -- OP edtied his post above to make the different question shown below, after replies to the original question. >>[/color]

benjamin1889 said:
NEW TITLE: Is life inevitable?
So there is a thought experiment about a monkey endless typing random words. Given a large enough amount of time, it is certain that the monkey will end up writing everything that has already been written from start to finish one after another. So this being applied to our current theory of the universe, does this not mean that with matter endlessly aligning into a finite amount of combinations over an infinite amount of time, that the existence of life is inevitable and is the embodiment of a possibility and an incomprehensible volume of time.
If life is enivitable does this devalue it? Surely it means that everything is sort of preordained?
 
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benjamin1889 said:
That being said we now believe that the universe is finite and does indeed have a boundary.
I don't think anyone expects a boundary. It is not known if the universe is finite or not.
benjamin1889 said:
could it be possible that our universe is contained within a singularity
What does "within a singularity" mean? There is no such thing.
benjamin1889 said:
A place where space time is infinite
What does that mean?
 
Yeah the first bit is my mistake, was thinking of the known universe. Within a singularity means past the boarders of our current understanding. A knowledge horizon if you like. A place where time could be infinite and every possibility is forced to happen. Just sounds a lot like our known universe
mfb said:
I don't think anyone expects a boundary. It is not known if the universe is finite or not.What does "within a singularity" mean? There is no such thing.What does that mean?
 
benjamin1889 said:
A place where time could be infinte and every possibility is forced to happen. Just sounds a lot like our known universe

If it really sounds to you like our known Universe, then I think you should learn more about our Universe. No offence, but your definition doesn't make any physical/matematical sense. It's just fancy words put together to sound scientific-like...
 
benjamin1889 said:
Just sounds a lot like our known universe

To me it sounds more like woo.
 
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weirdoguy said:
If it really sounds to you like our known Universe, then I think you should learn more about our Universe. No offence, but your definition doesn't make any physical/matematical sense. It's just fancy words put together to sound scientific-like...
It does if our known universe is just a grain of sand in a beach that is existence. Just a possibility forced to happen by Murphy a law. Perhaps this is more of a philosophical question
 
benjamin1889 said:
Within a singularity means past the boarders of our current understanding. A knowledge horizon if you like.
You can't make up new definitions for words and expect that others understand you.

We live in a universe we understand quite well. There are many open questions, but we certainly do understand a lot.
 
mfb said:
You can't make up new definitions for words and expect that others understand you.

We live in a universe we understand quite well. There are many open questions, but we certainly do understand a lot.
It's not a new definition it is was it is, my mistake came with miss interpreting some facts about the Know universe. My main question is really much smaller and has been blown out of proportion. Thanks for being so understanding with a new member
 
benjamin1889 said:
does this not mean that with matter endlessly aligning into a finite amount of combinations over an infinite amount of time, that the existence of life is inevitable and is the embodiment of a possibility and an incomprehensible volume of time.
With an infinitely expanding universe, my understanding is matter will never align into a finite number of combinations due to irreversible processes increasing the entropy of the system. Regarding extreme possibilities actually happening, I'll use another thought experiment of flipping coins: while the probability of flipping a coin heads 1 million times in a row has a probability >0 over infinity, it's logically safe to say it will never happen.
 
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  • #10
A mathematical singularity is not a physical 'thing'.
It indicates a situation in which the usually applicable and trustworthy maths cannot be applied.
 
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  • #12
stoomart said:
With an infinitely expanding universe, my understanding is matter will never align into a finite number of combinations due to irreversible processes increasing the entropy of the system. Regarding extreme possibilities actually happening, I'll use another thought experiment of flipping coins: while the probability of flipping a coin heads 1 million times in a row has a probability >0 over infinity, it's logically safe to say it will never happen.
Surely when dealing with large numbers i.e. Infinite. Does this not mean that any possibility will eventually happen?
 
  • #13
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  • #14
benjamin1889 said:
I'm not 100% sure what woo is haha. I'll will read your link when I finish work
:thumbup:Of course context is everything, Searching the term using Pf's search bar would be a useful shortcut.
 
  • #15
benjamin1889 said:
Surely when dealing with large numbers i.e. Infinite. Does this not mean that any possibility will eventually happen?
The idea of "anything that can happen will happen" sounds like a romantic embrace of Murphy's law, which doesn't seem very pragmatic.
 
  • #16
stoomart said:
The idea of "anything that can happen will happen" sounds like a romantic embrace of Murphy's law, which doesn't seem very pragmatic.
It's a romantic yes but surely it's true, flick a coin enough times and 10 heads will turn up in a row, flick enough times and every possible combination will appear. I'm not sure but I heard it is a mathamitical certenty?
 
  • #17
It
1oldman2 said:
:thumbup:Of course context is everything, Searching the term using Pf's search bar would be a useful shortcut.
may very well be woo, I am coming to a conclusion filled in from many sources and I have made a lot of assumptions as I lack any astrophysics background. But to me at least the printable seems sound. I appreciate where dealing with small probabilitys but surely a probability is only as small as the time given for it to actually happen? May be complete phsudeo science, I dunno
 
  • #18
benjamin1889 said:
It's a romantic yes but surely it's true, flick a coin enough times and 10 heads will turn up in a row, flick enough times and every possible combination will appear. I'm not sure but I heard it is a mathamitical certenty?
Also to our best records "anything that can happen will happen" was originally what he said. It was later adopted to the more widely known anything that can go wrong, will.
 
  • #19
It seems likely that the universe is NOT infinite in time.
Big bang theory indicates that it had a beginning, and there are number of plausible theories pertaining to how it ends.
If the probability of something happening is so low that it's not going to happen in the lifetime of the Universe, that means that in fact it doesn't happen.
 
  • #20
The ultraviolet catastrophe was inspired by the notion of a non zero probability that all possible emission frequencies must be realized.
 
  • #21
rootone said:
It seems likely that the universe is NOT infinite in time.
Big bang theory indicates that it had a beginning, and there are number of plausible theories pertaining to how it ends.
If the probability of something happening is so low that it's not going to happen in the lifetime of the Universe, that means that in fact it doesn't happen.
Now this is a good response. However what if the start and end and possible restart are included? Does time then become infinite and if so would the possibilitys be reset. So if the universe starts and ends over and over, surely the eventually it would have to produce a universe like ours with complex life? Also if the multiverse is to believed then the need to include the repetition is in nesseray as there would be an infinite amount of timelines
 
  • #22
benjamin1889 said:
Now this is a good response. However what if the start and end and possible restart are included? Does time then become infinite and if so would the possibilitys be reset. So if the universe starts and ends over and over, surely the eventually it would have to produce a universe like ours with complex life? Also if the multiverse is to believed then the need to include the repetition is in nesseray as there would be an infinite amount of timelines
Also I presume time kind of would be infinite as the most held believe for the end of the universe is heat death, I guess all possibilitys at this point would drop to zero anyway
 
  • #23
According to string theory and the holographic principle, it's possible that matter/information is located on the cosmological horizon, which describes the interior. Perhaps someone with more knowledge can chime in, this is a very interesting topic.
 
  • #24
Thread locked for moderation.
 
  • #25
This thread will stay locked. @benjamin1889: Please try to learn the actual science before you start wild speculations. These speculations don't help, they just lead to all sorts of misconceptions.
 

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