Do we see things slower the further away they are?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of cosmic expansion on the observation of light from distant events, specifically addressing how the separation of photons emitted at different times is affected by the expansion of space. Participants explore concepts related to redshift and the implications for measuring time differences in light arrival from distant astronomical events.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that if space expands at 70 km/s/Mpc, then two photons emitted from an event 10 Mpc away, separated by 1 second, would arrive with a time separation influenced by the expansion.
  • Another participant corrects the initial expression for time difference, noting that it is generally a result of redshift and emphasizes the need for clarity in the units used (Mpc vs. mpc).
  • A participant questions whether a larger scale, such as Gpc, is necessary for a realistic example and discusses the variability of the expansion rate over time.
  • One participant reiterates the concept of redshift, explaining that at a redshift of z=1, photons emitted one second apart would arrive two seconds apart due to the expansion of space.
  • Another participant suggests using a cosmology calculator to explore the relationship between redshift and distance, indicating that it can provide various metrics related to light travel time and distances.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the specifics of how cosmic expansion affects the timing of light arrival, with some clarifying and correcting earlier statements. There is no consensus on the precise calculations or implications, indicating that multiple competing views remain.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in their assumptions, particularly regarding the scale of cosmic expansion and the definitions of terms like redshift. The discussion reflects an ongoing exploration of these concepts without resolving all mathematical or theoretical uncertainties.

EmileJ
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So if space would expand with 70kms/mpc and we would be able to observe an event 10mpc away, would two photons coming from the event separated at the event by 1 second arrive with a time separation of 1 + (10*70/c) on our location?

Asking this to see if I understand some of this expansion. I guess in reality you would be lucky if both photons arrive over such a fast distance and encounter so many different influences that this delay is not measurable.
 
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The expression for the time difference is not the one you are quoting except for very recent times, but in general yes. This is a direct result of redshift.

EmileJ said:
mpc
You probably mean Mpc here. There is a factor of ##10^9## difference between 1 Mpc and 1 mpc.

Also note that 10 Mpc is not much larger than the size of the local galactic group. Galaxy clusters are gravitationally bound objects and at those scales the universe does not expand. You need to go to larger scales than that.
 
Thanks for answering.
Yes I ment Mpc where I wrote mpc :oops:.
So for a more realistic example I would have to use Gpc? At that scale I cannot simply use 70 km s−1Mpc−1 anymore because this varies over time? Or did I make more wrong assumptions?
 
EmileJ said:
So if space would expand with 70kms/mpc and we would be able to observe an event 10mpc away, would two photons coming from the event separated at the event by 1 second arrive with a time separation of 1 + (10*70/c) on our location?

Asking this to see if I understand some of this expansion. I guess in reality you would be lucky if both photons arrive over such a fast distance and encounter so many different influences that this delay is not measurable.
As Orodruin, yes, the concept here is accurate. The way you actually do the math is you look at the redshift and how it relates to distance.

At ##z=1##, which means the wavelengths have doubled (##\lambda_o = (1+z)\lambda_e##), two photons emitted sequentially will be twice as far apart by the time they arrive, and if they were emitted one second apart, then they will arrive two seconds apart.

The rate of expansion is related to the redshift, in that the rate of expansion is conceptually a derivative of the redshift, though the precise definition is slightly more complicated. I'm not sure it's worthwhile going into precisely how redshift relates to distance, but an easy thing to do is to just use Ned Wright's cosmology calculator and enter different redshifts:
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/CosmoCalc.html

It'll tell you the amount of time it took the light to travel, how far away the object was when the light was emitted ("angular size distance"), how far away it is today ("comoving radial distance"), as well as a few other stats.
 

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