- #1
john88888
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are there any theories right know to solve it
Do you think the uncertainty principal will ever be solved
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In summary, the uncertainty relation states that the results of a large number of measurements will be distributed in a certain way. It does not limit our ability to work with, or manipulate quantum states.
- #2
sweet springs
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Hi,
As far as I know, Ozawa proposed a new uncertainty relation replacing that of Heisenberg.
Regards.
ref.
“Universally valid reformulation of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle
on noise and disturbance in measurement” Physical Review A, vol. 67, pp.
042105-1 042105-6, April 2003.
As far as I know, Ozawa proposed a new uncertainty relation replacing that of Heisenberg.
Regards.
ref.
“Universally valid reformulation of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle
on noise and disturbance in measurement” Physical Review A, vol. 67, pp.
042105-1 042105-6, April 2003.
- #3
jtbell
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john88888 said:
What do you mean by "solve"?
- #4
Coldcall
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john88888 said:
it is solved according to most qm interpretations. The only ones that question it are hardcore deterministic theories such as Bohmiam mechanics.
Some folks just can't handle the uncertainty :-)
- #5
Geigerclick
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I believe he means, "will we ever overcome the limitations it seems to impose", as though it were Measurement Problem. I think that is a fundamental misunderstanding of what the HUP is, and means.
It appears to be fundamental to nature (see CMB) and not something to be "solved".
It appears to be fundamental to nature (see CMB) and not something to be "solved".
- #6
Coldcall
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Geigerclick said:
but it does not actually limit anything. We don't need the certainty to be able to work with, or manipulate quantum states. If it was a problem we wouldn't have lasers, dvds etc...
The "problem" is all in our mind, its a philosophical issue regarding determinism.
- #7
Geigerclick
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Coldcall said:
I'm just attempting to guess at what he meant, based on what many people believe about the HUP, I am by no means arguing against QM formalism.
- #8
Coldcall
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Geigerclick said:
sorry i know, i was just sort of agreeing with you :-)
- #9
Geigerclick
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Coldcall said:
High five!
- #10
Fredrik
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Of course it does.Coldcall said:
The uncertainty relation is a theorem in QM that tells you something about how the results of a large number of measurements will be distributed, and there are no experiments that contradicts it, so I don't know how you can say that it's "all in our mind".Coldcall said:
- #11
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Coldcall said:
Would you consider the deBoer effect something only in our minds?
Zz.
- #12
Coldcall
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Fredrik said:
I was saying the HUP does not limit our ability to manipulate technology using qm. I think you've misunderstood what i was saying.
- #13
Coldcall
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ZapperZ said:
whats the deboer effect? Sorry for my ignorance :-)
- #14
reilly
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Why is it the case that two or more fermions cannot be in the same state?
Why does the Dirac Eq. work?
Why does the Rosenbluth cross section for electron- proton scattering work?
Why does force cause acceleration?
Good physics allows generalizations; QM does so in spades. The ultimate issue in QM is: why does it work? For the most part, physicists accept HUP because it is fundamentally tied to the very basics of QM, and has been so since the 1920s. Fredrik has it exactly right.
My take is: to "solve" the HUP requires us to "solve" QM And, to "solve" QM requires us to solve E&M, classical mechanics and so on. Why are the notions of force, mass, electric charge, angular momentum, among others, useful ? Quite a few years ago, Wigner pondered why mathematics works in describing Nature -- who knows? So, we take it for granted that our mathematically expressed theories have validity -- if their conclusions are confirmed by experiments. Usually we try to expand the range of validity of our theories until we run into conflicts with experiment.
In short, we take much for granted, including making inferences from theories that seem to be successful, that is supported by experiments. The HUP is a perfect example of such an inference. And, when you study scattering experiments,for example, the HUP jumps off the page. An example that I think shows the basics of the HUP starts with a position eigenstate -- for simplicity, we're talking NR QM. Look at the momentum distribution of this state. Then the basics of the HUP will be writ large.
So, more generally, why do we need to work with non-commuting variables in QM?
Regards,
Reilly Atkinson
Why does the Dirac Eq. work?
Why does the Rosenbluth cross section for electron- proton scattering work?
Why does force cause acceleration?
Good physics allows generalizations; QM does so in spades. The ultimate issue in QM is: why does it work? For the most part, physicists accept HUP because it is fundamentally tied to the very basics of QM, and has been so since the 1920s. Fredrik has it exactly right.
My take is: to "solve" the HUP requires us to "solve" QM And, to "solve" QM requires us to solve E&M, classical mechanics and so on. Why are the notions of force, mass, electric charge, angular momentum, among others, useful ? Quite a few years ago, Wigner pondered why mathematics works in describing Nature -- who knows? So, we take it for granted that our mathematically expressed theories have validity -- if their conclusions are confirmed by experiments. Usually we try to expand the range of validity of our theories until we run into conflicts with experiment.
In short, we take much for granted, including making inferences from theories that seem to be successful, that is supported by experiments. The HUP is a perfect example of such an inference. And, when you study scattering experiments,for example, the HUP jumps off the page. An example that I think shows the basics of the HUP starts with a position eigenstate -- for simplicity, we're talking NR QM. Look at the momentum distribution of this state. Then the basics of the HUP will be writ large.
So, more generally, why do we need to work with non-commuting variables in QM?
Regards,
Reilly Atkinson
1. What is the uncertainty principle?
The uncertainty principle, also known as Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, is a fundamental principle in quantum mechanics that states that the more precisely one property of a particle is known, the less precisely another property can be known. This means that there is a fundamental limit to the precision with which certain pairs of physical properties of a particle can be known simultaneously.
2. Why is the uncertainty principle important?
The uncertainty principle is important because it reveals the limitations of our ability to measure and understand the behavior of particles at a subatomic level. It also plays a crucial role in many areas of modern physics, including quantum mechanics, quantum field theory, and quantum gravity.
3. Will the uncertainty principle ever be solved?
It is unlikely that the uncertainty principle will ever be "solved" in the traditional sense. This principle is a fundamental aspect of quantum mechanics and has been extensively tested and verified through experiments. However, there are ongoing efforts to better understand the implications and applications of the uncertainty principle.
4. Can the uncertainty principle be violated?
No, the uncertainty principle cannot be violated. It is a fundamental principle of quantum mechanics that has been consistently observed in experiments. However, there are certain situations where the uncertainty principle may seem to be violated due to measurement errors or other factors, but this does not disprove the principle itself.
5. How does the uncertainty principle affect our daily lives?
The uncertainty principle has very little impact on our daily lives in a practical sense. It applies to particles at a subatomic level and does not affect the behavior of larger objects. However, many modern technologies such as transistors, lasers, and MRI machines rely on our understanding of the uncertainty principle and its applications in quantum mechanics.
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