Do you view fighting as a competition to see who is better?

[nismaratwork]

Well I didn't say you had to not be afraid to die just show it lol :) You ever see animals play dead before?

Sure, but sometimes that ends badly too!

I like to take it by training: react if you must, run if you can, and beyond that there is no such thing as pride in a true fight. If playing possum works... more power to you.

 

[DanP]

To me it's about restraint because fights aren't always over after the fight ends. If you do fight someone and use dirty methods you may "win the battle" however if you run into that person again you may "lose the war". I personally don't defend my self in fights as the person fighting you is almost always not out to kill you or other wise they would have came up from behind and just stabbed you or something. What's the point of fighting the person if it's just going to make them more angry and possibly get you in trouble with the law ect?

This is fear, not restraint. It;s a reason as good as any other to not fight, but you must not misinterpret it as restraint.

Also I think most people give up fighting you fast if you show that your not afraid to die right then and there as most of the fighting is just about getting a jolly out of it and you don't get joy from beating something that is easy to beat.

Only that it doesn't work that way. Humans prefer to beat targets which are easy to beat or prey upon. Targets of physical violence , bullying, rape (or conn actions for that matter) are usually selected for from categories of persons which are least likely to represent a real threat to the attacker. That's it, easy targets. Some humans are very good at selecting least dangerous opponents. Uncannily so. It works the same way like when you see a women and in several seconds you decide she is hot or not. You just sit and look at the flow of pedestrians, and you will just know who is more likely to be a victim. It doesn't take more than seconds of observation. We are very good at this. In this case, reading a book by its cover works. The process is surprisingly accurate. And agression is not about "jolly". Its mainly about emotive responses to stressors, domination and instrumental goals.

But despite the accuracy of this process, you may be in for a surprise some times.

And the statement "your not afraid to die" is a bit melodramatic. Youll **** your pants if it comes to that. And to be honest, it takes much less than a life threat to make an average person be very afraid.

 

[nismaratwork]

This is fear, not restraint. It;s a reason as good as any other to not fight, but you must not misinterpret it as restraint.



Only that it doesn't work that way. Humans prefer to beat targets which are easy to beat or prey upon. Targets of physical violence , bullying, rape (or conn actions for that matter) are usually selected for from categories of persons which are least likely to represent a real threat to the attacker. That's it, easy targets. Some humans are very good at selecting least dangerous opponents. Uncannily so. It works the same way like when you see a women and in several seconds you decide she is hot or not. You just sit and look at the flow of pedestrians, and you will just know who is more likely to be a victim. It doesn't take more than seconds of observation. We are very good at this. In this case, reading a book by its cover works. The process is surprisingly accurate.


And agression is not about "jolly". Its mainly about emotive responses to stressors, domination and instrumental goals.

But despite the accuracy of this process, you may be in for a surprise some times.

And the statement "your not afraid to die" is a bit melodramatic. Youll **** your pants if it comes to that. And to be honest, it takes much less than a life threat to make an average person be very afraid.

Your point about victimization is probably no more evident than in children, and I'm not talking about sexual abuse. For all that people purport to love them, they make such easy victims of neglect, casual stupidity, cruelty, etc. It's quite ugly, and the other end of that spectrum is elder abuse, and the abuse of the mentally disabled.

Predators never change at their core, fortunately methods of detecting them DO.

 

[Containment]

Only that it doesn't work that way. Humans prefer to beat targets which are easy to beat or prey upon. Targets of physical violence , bullying, rape (or conn actions for that matter) are usually selected for from categories of persons which are least likely to represent a real threat to the attacker. That's it, easy targets. Some humans are very good at selecting least dangerous opponents. Uncannily so. It works the same way like when you see a women and in several seconds you decide she is hot or not. You just sit and look at the flow of pedestrians, and you will just know who is more likely to be a victim. It doesn't take more than seconds of observation. We are very good at this. In this case, reading a book by its cover works. The process is surprisingly accurate. And agression is not about "jolly". Its mainly about emotive responses to stressors, domination and instrumental goals.

But despite the accuracy of this process, you may be in for a surprise some times.

And the statement "your not afraid to die" is a bit melodramatic. Youll **** your pants if it comes to that. And to be honest, it takes much less than a life threat to make an average person be very afraid.

While I do agree bullies will generally pick on someone who is not there size they are generally looking to engage in an actual fight. They really do want you to fight back as I remember in school the bullies I dealt with almost always wanted you to throw the first punch so they could justify to others that they where defending them selfs. Even if you didn't attack them after being hit a few times they would still claim that you hit them first and started the fight. They generally do not keep punching you if you don't fight back from my experience in school. Also if you get to know some of the types that are bullies they are generally just taking frustration out on others from the type of stuff they have to deal with at home like being beat / neglected by parents in my experience. Like one guy I knew that actually stabbed me with a pencil in class I later got to know a bit better and found out about some fairly insane stuff his parents did to him.

 

[mathwonk]

I began by wanting to be the toughest guy around. Then eventually i became envious of the man who never has to fight. Read I. Samuel, 19, the verse beginning with the 18th, for a description of that ideal. See an account of a man (Samuel) so much in tune with himself and the world that anyone who comes near him, no matter how violent is his intent, loses all ability to do harm. David, the greatest warrior of his time, fled from King Saul, and encamped with Samuel. Saul sent men to take him three times and finally went himself. All to no avail, for when entering the vicinity of Samuel's camp, every man he sent began to worship and prophesy. Think about that level of existence. How can you get there?

 

[mathwonk]

On the subject of dying, it reminds me of my political action days. At the height of the Vietnam war I turned in my draft card, which was a deferred one by the way, hence giving up my deferment, and dared them to draft me. When they did so rather soon, I refused the draft and began to prepare for prison or worse.

I had been afraid for a long time to express my views and then I asked myself what could happen? I decided the worst they could do was kill me, so I decided if I wanted to feel free, I needed to be willing to die for my beliefs, so I decided not to let that stop me.

This is a very dangerous position to hold. At this point you have absolutely no fear of anyone, and you begin to do whatever seems right to you. I started objecting to all kinds of wrong behavior even by the police, interfering when they abused street people for instance, and I began getting arrested regularly and beaten up by them and jailed.

The only good that came of that was one night comforting a younger kid who was afraid being in jail would keep him out of the marines. I was pretty sure that was not an obstacle and told him so. After a while though I got really tired of being beaten and arrested and began to slack off. But it took a while.

Once I went to the police station to complain about something, got some grief and told the officer on duty to **** himself and stalked out with him hollering "come back here" I don't recommend any of this, and am only telling it now because I am pretty sure they do not know where I am now 40 years later.

Is anyone sorry they missed the 60's? Let me tell you, you are not. I lost 10 years of my productive life fighting the Nixon administration, the institution of racism, ...as Brando said: "I could have been a contendah". ... Fighting is lost time for working and creating, and it can end all chance of those. If I didn't have friends to bring me home, I might have been left on the street one of those nights in 1968.

 

[DanP]

See an account of a man (Samuel) so much in tune with himself and the world that anyone who comes near him, no matter how violent is his intent, loses all ability to do harm. David, the greatest warrior of his time, fled from King Saul, and encamped with Samuel. Saul sent men to take him three times and finally went himself. All to no avail, for when entering the vicinity of Samuel's camp, every man he sent began to worship and prophesy.
Think about that level of existence. How can you get there?

You simply won't get there. You will not even get close. Not by a million light years.

 

[nismaratwork]

You simply won't get there. You will not even get close. Not by a million light years.

Yeah... I'd have to agree. I can see the value in wanting to emulate characterstics of heroic figures, but we don't live in a heroic age. I'd also add that there is such a thing as a PARABLE.

 

[mathwonk]

You are right of course Dan and Nismarat, but once it occurs to you, I guarantee you that you can begin to make progress you would have never thought possible, if only for a few moments now and then.

Unfortunately i am not a qualified teacher, but as an example I would suggest trying the exercise of trying to endure an insult without becoming angry. Try to see the other man as like oneself, who is searching...

Forgive me for these suggestions as you probably understand more than I.

 

[Loren Booda]

This is a very dangerous position to hold. At this point you have absolutely no fear of anyone, and you begin to do whatever seems right to you. I started objecting to all kinds of wrong behavior even by the police, interfering when they abused street people for instance, and I began getting arrested regularly and beaten up by them and jailed.

Sounds like Martin Luther King Jr. when he resolved to die for right.

 

[nismaratwork]

Sounds like Martin Luther King Jr. when he resolved to die for right.

Unfortunately it also sounds like everyone else who dies for the same cause, but doesn't achieve their ends. It's a terrible risk, and in the context of fighting in this thread, I think it's unwise.