Does Adding a Constant to Two Real Numbers Preserve Their Relative Inequality?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the implications of adding a constant to two real numbers and whether this operation preserves their relative inequality. Participants explore the conditions under which a number remains the only value between two others after a constant is added, particularly in the context of integrals.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether adding a constant \( b \) to two real numbers \( s_n \) and \( S_n \) preserves the inequality \( s_n < A < S_n \) to \( s'_n < A + b < S'_n \).
  • Another participant suggests that while the last inequality can be derived through addition, it does not imply the preservation of the inequality directly.
  • There is a request for clarification on the specific nature of the inquiry regarding the uniqueness of \( A + b \) as the only number between \( s'_n \) and \( S'_n \).
  • A participant provides a detailed breakdown of the inequalities, indicating that separating the inequalities into two parts allows for a clearer understanding of how addition affects them.
  • Concerns are raised about the assumption that \( A \) is the only number between \( s_n \) and \( S_n \), with a participant questioning the validity of this claim regardless of the values of \( A \), \( s_n \), and \( S_n \).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether \( A + b \) can be considered the only number between \( s'_n \) and \( S'_n \) after adding \( b \). There is no consensus on this point, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the context of integrals and the relationship between inner and outer rectangles, which may influence their interpretations of the inequalities. The discussion also highlights the need for precision in mathematical language and assumptions.

ice109
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if

[tex]s^{'}_{n} = s_n + b[/tex]

and

[tex]S^{'}_{n} = S_n + b[/tex]

and

[tex]s_n < A < S_n[/tex]

does that imply that

[tex]s^{'}_{n} < A+b < S^{'}_{n}[/tex]

?

ahh why can't i delete, i think this is probably obvious

the actual point of contention is if A is the only number between [itex]s_n[/itex] and [itex]S_n[/itex]
is A+b the only number between [itex]s^{'}_{n}[/itex] and [itex]S^{'}_{n}[/itex] ? Surely it is but does it obviously follow?
 
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If you add b to everything you will get the last inequality. So it doesn't really imply it but you can get it by addition of b.
 
ice109 said:
A is the only number between [itex]s_n[/itex] and [itex]S_n[/itex]
is A+b the only number between [itex]s^{'}_{n}[/itex] and [itex]S^{'}_{n}[/itex] ? Surely it is but does it obviously follow?
Could you be more precise in what you're asking?
 
Hurkyl said:
Could you be more precise in what you're asking?

[itex]s_n[/itex] and [itex]S_n[/itex] are the inner and outer rectangles of an integral of f(x) and [itex]s^{'}_{n}[/itex] and [itex]S^{'}_{n}[/itex] are similarly for f(x)+b. I want to use the results of the proof of the first integral for the second one.
 
Yes, as rockfreak667 said, if you start with [itex]s_n< A< S_n[/itex] and add b to each part, [itex]s_n+ b< A+ b< S_n+ b[/itex] so [itex]s'_n< A+ b< S'_n[/itex].

If you want to be more specific, separate [itex]s_n< A< S_n[/itex] into [itex]s_n< A[/itex] and [itex]A< S_n[/itex]. Adding b to each side of those, [itex]s_n+ b< A+ b[/itex] and [itex]A+ b< S_n+ b[/itex] so [itex]s'_n< A+ b[/itex] and [itex]A+ b< S'_n[/itex] which combine to [itex]s'_n< A+ b< S'_n[/itex].
 
ice109 said:
[itex]s_n[/itex] and [itex]S_n[/itex] are the inner and outer rectangles
How are you ordering rectangles? Or did you mean s_n and S_n are their height? So I presume A, s_n, and S_n are all supposed to be real numbers? Then (no matter what their values are!) it cannot possibly be true that A is the only number between s_n and S_n.
 

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