Does Charge Flow Differ in Simple Circuits with Ideal vs. Real-World Batteries?

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IntegralDerivative
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Homework Statement



upload_2017-5-12_12-46-12.png

The Attempt at a Solution



Top left: No charge flowing through circuit b/c switch is open, not closed.
Top right: No charge flowing through circuit b/c circuit does not connect positive and negative terminals
Bottom left: Charge flows through circuit b/c closed loop between + and - terminal.
Bottom right: No charge can flow through since negative terminal cannot be directly connected to another negative terminal.

Please let me know if these answers are correct and how I can make them better. Thank you!
 
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IntegralDerivative said:
Bottom right: No charge can flow through since negative terminal cannot be directly connected to another negative terminal.
RIght answer for the wrong reason. It's perfectly acceptable to connect negative terminals.
 
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phinds said:
RIght answer for the wrong reason. It's perfectly acceptable to connect negative terminals.

Thank you so much for you response phinds! :)

I don't get this. But I would say it as 2 positive terminals are making up the circuit, and they not sending any electrons through the circuit essentially. The electrons are all concentrated at the wire connecting the 2 negative terminals.
 
IntegralDerivative said:
I would say it as 2 positive terminals are making up the circuit
No, that is not correct. Everything you see is part of the circuit, it's just a question of whether or not current flows through the various parts (it doesn't).What is the potential on each side of the bulb?
 
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The potential on the positive side is maximum. The potential on the negative side is 0?
 
IntegralDerivative said:
The potential on the positive side is maximum. The potential on the negative side is 0?
I have no idea what your reference is. what do you mean "the negative side"? I'm not asking you about the battery, I'm asking you about the bulb. Please read my question again.
 
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Here is what I mean:

upload_2017-5-12_13-19-5.png
 
phinds said:
Well, then answer my question

I think the potential on each side of the bulb is maximum?
 
IntegralDerivative said:
I think the potential on each side of the bulb is maximum?
Yes, but it's irrelevant whether or not it is maximum, minimum, or anywhere in between. Focus on why no current flows.
 
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phinds said:
Yes, but it's irrelevant whether or not it is maximum, minimum, or anywhere in between. Focus on why no current flows.

There is no potential difference across the bulb so no current can flow. The potential is the same everywhere on the right side of the circuit between the 2 positive terminals?
 
IntegralDerivative said:
There is no potential difference across the bulb so no current can flow. The potential is the same everywhere on the right side of the circuit between the 2 positive terminals?
Exactly.
 
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phinds said:
Exactly.

Thank you so much phinds :D I get it now.
 
Now let me pose another question to extend the problem, and your understanding.

Those are ideal batteries. Now let's consider real-world batteries which have internal resistance. Suppose one of the batteries has a .01 ohm resistor in series with its positive terminal and the other battery has a .012 ohm resistor in series with its positive terminal. Does the answer change?
 
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phinds said:
Now let me pose another question to extend the problem, and your understanding.

Those are ideal batteries. Now let's consider real-world batteries which have internal resistance. Suppose one of the batteries has a .01 ohm resistor in series with its positive terminal and the other battery has a .012 ohm resistor in series with its positive terminal. Does the answer change?

Wow great. :) I will try to solve this after my classes today. Thank you.