Capacitor plates and tunneling current

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the existence of tunneling current between closely spaced capacitor plates at moderate voltages, the implications of such a current on capacitor energy, and the conditions under which electrons might traverse a vacuum between capacitor plates without tunneling. The scope includes theoretical considerations and speculative models related to quantum mechanics and electrical behavior in capacitors.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that a tunneling current will exist between capacitor plates at moderate voltages due to the absence of infinite barriers.
  • One participant suggests that the tunneling current will deplete the capacitor's energy at a very slow rate, attributing this depletion to radiation.
  • There is a mention of the potential for increased current generation through physical movement of the capacitor.
  • Another participant questions whether, under extreme voltages and without dielectrics, electrons can break through a vacuum to reach the positive plate even if tunneling does not occur.
  • One participant speculates that the tunneling current might resemble thermally generated currents or osmotic currents, and suggests the possibility of modeling tunneling effects using quantum mechanics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature and implications of tunneling currents, with some agreeing on the existence of such currents while others raise questions about specific conditions and behaviors. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of electron behavior in vacuum and the exact nature of tunneling currents.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the conditions under which tunneling occurs, the definitions of energy depletion mechanisms, and the lack of consensus on the behavior of electrons in vacuum at high voltages.

sid_galt
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If two capacitor plates at a moderate voltage (200-300V) and low capacitance are kept very close to each other would there exist a tunneling current between them.

If the tunneling current will exist, then it will gradually reduce the energy of the capacitor. Where will the used capacitor energy go?

BTW, is there a limit to how much energy density a capacitor can have?
 
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Yes, a tunneling current will exist -- ain't no infinite barriers around.

Yes, the tunneling current will deplete the energy, but at something like an erg/century energy flow. The depletion comes from radiation. Note, you might generate more current by waving the capacitor in the air, at a fairly vigorous pace.

Yes, when the plates begin to melt, or, when hit you dialectric breakdown -- the electric field begins to tear the dipoles apart. You can read about this in most any basic physics text.

Regards,
Reilly Atkinson
 
reilly said:
Yes, when the plates begin to melt, or, when hit you dialectric breakdown -- the electric field begins to tear the dipoles apart. You can read about this in most any basic physics text.

Thank you. :smile:

And for the breakdown part, I was actually talking about no dielectrics i.e. capacitor in vacuum.
Under extreme voltages like million or billion volts and low capacitance, without dielectrics, will the electrons be able to break through the vacuum and travel to the positive capacitor plate even when the capacitor plates are sufficiently apart for no tunneling current to take place?
 
Last edited:
Can anyone please answer my last question?
 
Just a guess. The tunneling current may be much like a thermally generated current, or, perhaps even more likely, that the tunneling effect produces an osmotic cuurent -- perhaps in both directions, not dissimilar to the ionic currents in neurons.

I also suspect that it might be possible to build a simple QM model with potential wells to test and examine tunnelling currents in a capacitor.

Regards,
Reilly Atkinson
 

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