Does Every Set Have a Unique Power Set? Understanding Cantor's Proof

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter cragar
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Cantor's proof regarding the relationship between a set and its power set, specifically addressing the question of whether every set has a unique power set. Participants explore the implications of the proof, the definitions involved, and the nature of mapping elements from a set to its power set.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant attempts to understand Cantor's proof, questioning why an element z cannot be in both Y and f(z), suggesting it relates to the need for a one-to-one function from the set to the power set.
  • Another participant confirms that x cannot be mapped to itself because x and f(x) belong to different spaces, indicating that this mapping is essential for the function to be onto.
  • Several participants clarify that the element x is not in P(X), as P(X) consists of subsets of X, not the elements themselves.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about the definition of the function from the set to the power set, questioning why x cannot be in P(x).
  • Examples are provided to illustrate that while elements of X are not in P(X), subsets like {x} are included in P(X).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definitions and implications of the power set and the mapping of elements, but some uncertainty remains regarding the clarity of the function's definition and its implications.

Contextual Notes

Participants express confusion about the definitions and the nature of the mapping between sets and their power sets, indicating potential limitations in understanding the foundational concepts involved in Cantor's proof.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and individuals interested in set theory, particularly those seeking to understand Cantor's proof and the properties of power sets.

cragar
Messages
2,546
Reaction score
3
Im trying to understand this proof by Cantor.
For every set [itex]X, |X|<|P(x)|[/itex]
Proof. Let f be a function from X into P(x)
the set [itex]Y=(x \in X: x \notin f(x) )[/itex]
is not in the range of f:
if [itex]z \in X[/itex] where such that f(z)=Y, then [itex]z \in Y[/itex]
if and only if [itex]z \notin Y[/itex], a contradiction. Thus f is not
a function of X onto P(x).
Hence |P(x)|≠|X|, the function
f(x)={x} is a one-to-one function of X into P(x) and so
|X|≤|P(x)|. it follows that
|X|<|P(x)|.
I don't understand why z can't be in Y and f(z).
I guess that's because they defined it that way.
Is it because we want to find a one-to-one function from
the set to the power set, and because we want it to be one-to-one
we want to map every x to a unique element in the power set we don't want x to get mapped to itself. Is that the reason. And do we need z to be in Y and f(z) for it to be onto.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
cragar said:
[itex]Y=(x \in X: x \notin f(x) )[/itex]

I don't understand why z can't be in Y and f(z).
I guess that's because they defined it that way.

yes
Is it because… we don't want x to get mapped to itself.

but x can't get mapped to itself … x and f(x) are in different spaces
 
so if x got mapped to itself, it wouldn't be onto.
 
cragar said:
so if x got mapped to itself, it wouldn't be onto.

We CAN'T map x to itself. Since x is not an element of P(X).
 
Is it because… we don't want x to get mapped to itself.

The element x is not in P(X).
P(X) contains the set containing x (that is, it contains {x}), but it does not contain x itself. Remember that the power is the set of subsets of X.
 
this might be a dumb question, but maybe we didn't do a very good job of defining our funtion from the set to the powerset. why can't x be in P(x)
 
cragar said:
this might be a dumb question, but maybe we didn't do a very good job of defining our funtion from the set to the powerset. why can't x be in P(x)

The elements of P(X) are subsets, not elements, of X. P(X) contains {x}, but not x itself.
 
cragar said:
this might be a dumb question, but maybe we didn't do a very good job of defining our funtion from the set to the powerset. why can't x be in P(x)

A simple example will help you. Take X={1,2,3}, then P(X)=\{∅,{1},{2},{3},{1,2},{2,3},{1,3},{1,2,3}}. As you see, 1 is not an element of P(X). But {1} is an element of P(X).
 
ok thanks for the responses, it makes more sense now.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K