Does 'fungibility' exist in physics?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of 'fungibility' in the context of physics, particularly in relation to David Deutsch's Many Worlds Interpretation (MWI) of quantum mechanics. Participants explore the implications of fungibility in both economic and physical realms, questioning whether such properties exist in the universe or are merely constructs of human understanding.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants discuss Deutsch's assertion that there are infinite fungible universes in the MWI, comparing it to the fungibility of currency in economics.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the existence of fungible properties in physics, questioning if they are merely constructs of complex processes.
  • Another participant points out that fungibility is a basic tenet of quantum statistics, referencing the concept of identical particles.
  • There is mention of the terms "fungible" and "nonfungible" in quantum information theory, suggesting a possible connection to the discussion.
  • Some participants assert that there is only one universe, raising questions about the definition of the universe and the implications of hypothesizing beyond it.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the existence and relevance of fungibility in physics. While some acknowledge its role in quantum statistics, others challenge the applicability of the concept to the universe as a whole, indicating a lack of consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of defining fungibility in physical terms, with some suggesting that it may not be applicable outside of human constructs. The discussion also touches on the philosophical implications of the universe's definition and the nature of reality as proposed by MWI.

QuantumConfusion
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As is well known, David Deutsch is a leading proponent of the interpretation of Quantum Mechanics stating that the universe somehow branches into all the possibilities represented by the wavefunction; an ever-evolving multiverse, known as the Many Worlds Interpretation(MWI) or Everettian Interpretation.

In his book "The Beginning of Infinity" he introduces a core principle to derive his justification for probability in these Many Worlds: there exist an infinite amount of fungible universes. So there is no new universe magically spawned each time there's a quantum event, rather they were always there, an infinite identical set of them, but they are fungible. What does this mean? According to Deutsch 'fungibility' means that just like 1 dollar in your bank account is the same as any other dollar you have in your bank account, so is true for all particles in this fungible-multiverse. So the electron you are observing also exist in all the other corresponding universes, this is naturally the main axiom of MWI, however Deutsch makes a point about them not only being identical but fungible.

The concept of fungibility makes perfect sense to me in economics or other human constructs, but is it a property of physics? When we think back to the dollars in your bank account, they are fungible in the minds of everyone participating in the economy, they exist as neural patterns in our brains and as 1s and 0s made up of logic gates in the computers that hold them. I came across someone reviewing Deutsch's book who said lasers are fungible, but I am struggling to find any proof that there exist fungible properties in the real world that are not constructs of other complex processes. The reason this is a point of contention for me is that it underlies Deutsch's entire view of reality, which is quite a postulate to support ones quantum interpretation if it does not exist in known physics.
 
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I know of only 1 universe. Isn't the definition of universe, everything? Likewise, some hypothesize about things beyond the universe - how can there be anything beyond the universe if the universe is everything to begin with?
 
rqjoe said:
I know of only 1 universe. Isn't the definition of universe, everything? Likewise, some hypothesize about things beyond the universe - how can there be anything beyond the universe if the universe is everything to begin with?

I think understanding exactly what MW is trying to say will help:
https://www.webofstories.com/play/murray.gell-mann/160

Thanks
Bill
 

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