Is Homogeneous Always Separable in First Order Differential Equations?

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    Homogeneous Separable
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between homogeneous first-order differential equations and their separability. Participants explore definitions, examples, and implications of these concepts within the context of ordinary differential equations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that all homogeneous linear first-order differential equations are separable, providing a derivation based on the general form of such equations.
  • The same participant questions whether the converse is true, noting that a separable first-order differential equation is not necessarily a homogeneous linear differential equation.
  • Another participant points out a potential simplification regarding the constant of integration in the context of integrating factors.
  • A further reply confirms that the constant of integration can be represented as a single constant, A, rather than including the +/- distinction.
  • One participant clarifies that while homogeneous first-order differential equations are separable, the term "homogeneous" can have different meanings in different contexts, particularly in relation to the total exponent of variables in the equation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that homogeneous first-order differential equations are separable, but there is some disagreement regarding the broader implications and definitions of "homogeneous" in different contexts.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential limitations in definitions and the need for clarity regarding the term "homogeneous" as it applies to different types of differential equations.

cepheid
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Hi,

Please bear with me, I've only had the first sort of "pseudo-lecture" in ordinary d.e.'s this past week, and I was doing some reading ahead. It occurred to me that if linear first-order differential equations are those that can be written in the general form:

\frac{dy}{dx} + P(x)y = Q(x)

and if I understood my prof's remark correctly that homogeneous linear first-order d.e.'s are those for which Q(x) = 0, then all homogeneous first-order linear differential equations are actually separable because:

\frac{dy}{dx} + P(x)y = 0

\frac{dy}{dx} = -P(x)y

Which can be solved as follows:

\int{\frac{dy}{y}} = -\int{P(x)dx}

^^Looks separable to me. I just wanted to make sure I was getting the basics before I moved on. So is the thread title statement true then? Oh yeah, and I'm guessing that the converse is not always true right? A separable first-order d.e. is not necessarily a homogeneous linear d.e. right? After all, \frac{dy}{dx} = \frac{6x^2}{2y + cosy} is not linear in y right? But it looks like it could be homogeneous non-linear (if such a thing exists, I don't know?). In that case, would the statement homogeneous = separable be true in the most general sense? Moving on with the original example (I'm just solving while "LaTeXing" to see what comes out) ...

\ln|y| = -\int{P(x)dx}

|y| = e^{-\int {P(x)dx}}

Now, the most general solution for y must include the most general antiderivative, so we'll have a C stuck in there if and when we solve the integral:

y = \pm e^{-\int {P(x)dx} + C} = \pm e^{-\int {P(x)dx}}e^C = \pm Ae^{-\int {P(x)dx}}

Whoah, cool! So in a homogeneous first order d.e. the solution takes the form of some constant \pm A times the reciprocal of the integrating factor I(x)?! Is this always true?

EDIT: Yeah actually I can see why that is. Take the usual statement about the integrating factor:

(I(x)y)^{\prime} = I(x)Q(x)

If Q(x) = 0, then

(I(x)y)^{\prime} = 0

I(x)y = \pm A

y = \frac{\pm A}{I(x)}

Awesome! I discovered a lot more writing this post than I expected. I hope someone will correct me if I've made any errors.
 
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Just wondering, but do you really need to state that the constant of integration is +/- A, instead of just A (in the part where you talk about integrating factors)?
 
Good point. In fact, I guess I could have gotten rid of the +/- way up here:

\pm (e^{-\int {P(x)dx}})(e^C) = Ae^{-\int {P(x)dx}}

just combining everything into "A", which would remain as A for the ensuing discussion.
 
Last edited:
In answer to the original question, yes, a first order d.e. that is "homogeneous" in this sense: P(x) dy/dx+ Q(x)y= 0 is trivially seperable: dy/y= -(Q(x)/P(x))dx.

But be careful: in the limited area of FIRST ORDER d. e.s, the term "homogeneous" is often used in quite a different way (the d.e. A(x,y)dx+ B(x,y)dy= 0 is "homogeneous" if and only if B(&lamda;x,&lamda;y)/A(λx, λy)= B(x,y)/A(x,y) (essentially that means that the total exponent of x and y in each term is the same).
 

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