Does local realism imply separability?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the implications of local realism on the concept of separability in quantum mechanics. Participants explore the relationship between local hidden variable models and the separability of quantum states, examining various definitions and interpretations of local realism and separability.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents Bell's formulation of local realism and attempts to translate it into density operator notation, questioning whether their approach implies separability.
  • Another participant asserts that assuming local realism allows for the derivation of separability, referencing different definitions and derivations from literature.
  • A participant challenges the converse, stating that there are non-separable states that can still satisfy local realism, and introduces the idea that additional assumptions about measurement probabilities can lead to separability.
  • One participant acknowledges a misunderstanding regarding the definition of separability used in the original post and clarifies their position in relation to another participant's answer.
  • A participant inquires about the relationship between pure states, local realism, and separability, referencing a theorem that connects entanglement with violations of Bell inequalities.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of local realism for separability, with some asserting that separability can be derived from local realism while others argue that non-separable states can also satisfy local realism. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the generality of these claims.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that there are multiple definitions of local realism and separability, which may affect the conclusions drawn. The discussion also highlights the complexity of relating measurement probabilities to quantum measurements and the implications for the separability of states.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying quantum mechanics, particularly in the context of quantum entanglement, local hidden variable theories, and the foundational aspects of quantum theory.

greypilgrim
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Hi.

Bell's formulation of local realism is $$P(a,b)=\int\ d\lambda\cdot\rho(\lambda)p_A(a,\lambda)p_B(b,\lambda)\enspace.$$
Let's for simplicity assume there's only a finite number of states, so this becomes $$P(a,b)=\sum_{i} p_i\cdot\ p_A(a,i)p_B(b,i)\enspace.$$
I'm trying to translate this into density operator notation and then show that it implies that the state needs to be separable. So my ansatz is
$$P(a,b)=tr(\hat{\rho}\hat{A}(a)\otimes\hat{B}(b))\enspace,$$
where ##\hat{A}(a)## and ##\hat{B}(b)## are observables with spectrum ##\{1,0\}## (detecting or not detecting a photon). I'm trying to show by comparing the last two equations that ##\hat{\rho}## must have the form
$$\hat{\rho}=p_i\cdot\hat{\rho}_A ^i\otimes\hat{\rho}_B ^i$$
where ##\hat{\rho}_A ^i## and ##\hat{\rho}_B ^i## are density operators on their respective subsystems. However I can't see how to do this.

Showing that separable states satisfiy local realism is trivial, is the converse even true in general? If yes, how do you do this? Or is my ansatz nonsense? I'm unsure because I had to pick observables with eigenvalues and if ##\{1,0\}## was the right choice.
 
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Yes, assuming "local realism" one can derive separability. There are a number of different definitions of "local realism", so there are different derivations:

http://arxiv.org/abs/1503.06413

I like the derivation given by Wood and Spekkens (Fig.19):

http://arxiv.org/abs/1208.4119

Edit: This post does not use the definition of separability used in the OP. I misread. See jfizzix's answer below.
 
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greypilgrim said:
Showing that separable states satisfiy local realism is trivial, is the converse even true in general? If yes, how do you do this?
No. There are non-separable states that satisfy local realism. See, for example:
http://journals.aps.org/pra/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevA.40.4277

However, if along with local realism, you consider the additional assumption that all measurement probabilities are completely described by, and reducible to quantum measurements, then we can say the following:
If one's measurement statistics obey local realism, and one's measurement probabilities are reducible to quantum measurements, then the joint quantum state must be separable.

Indeed, it is for this reason that violating a Bell inequality proves the state is entangled; separable states are a strict subset of states admitting a local hidden variable model.
 
Although my answer differs from jfizzix's, I don't disagree with him. I gave the opposite answer because I misread the definition of separability in the OP. The answer in post #2 is correct for a different definition of separability than used in the OP. jfizzix's answer is correct for the definition of separability in the OP.
 
Hi,

The paper mentions that every pure state that satisfies local realism is separable (it actually says that every pure state admitting a hidden-variable model is classically correlated, but as far as I can see the definitions are the same).

I have no access to the referenced paper, but is there an easy way to show this?
 
I don't know of an easy way to show it, but if you want a source to look up, it's Gisin's theorem that says every entangled pure state must violate some sort of bell inequality. So, if a pure state does satisfy local realism, it must not be entangled.
 

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