Does Poisson's equation hold due to vector potential cancellation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the validity of Poisson's equation in the context of a system of two charged particles moving apart symmetrically. Participants explore the implications of vector potential cancellation and the conditions under which Poisson's equation may hold, particularly along the x-axis. The conversation touches on concepts from electrodynamics, including the Lorenz gauge and the behavior of electric and scalar potentials.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a scenario where two charged particles move apart, leading to a specific form of the vector potential that appears to cancel out along the x-axis.
  • Another participant questions the assertion that the divergence of the vector potential vanishes along the x-axis, suggesting that the time variation of the scalar field also does not vanish.
  • A different viewpoint is presented regarding the assumption that the charges are accelerating, which may affect the radiation pattern and the validity of the conclusions drawn about the potentials.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of using the Lorenz gauge in this context and whether it leads to an instantaneous solution for the scalar potential, which one participant suggests may be incorrect.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the divergence of the vector potential is indeed zero along the x-axis and whether this leads to valid conclusions about Poisson's equation. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing interpretations of the implications of the vector potential and the behavior of the electric field.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the motion of the charges, the applicability of the Lorenz gauge, and the conditions under which the vector potential is analyzed. The discussion does not clarify the mathematical steps necessary to fully resolve the claims made.

Bob44
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Imagine that two charged particles, with charge ##+q##, start at the origin and then move apart symmetrically on the ##+y## and ##-y## axes due to their electrostatic repulsion.
pic.webp

The ##y##-component of the retarded Liénard-Wiechert vector potential at a point along the ##x##-axis due to the two charges is
$$
\begin{eqnarray*}
A_y&=&\frac{q\,[\dot{y}]_{\mathrm{ret}}}{4\pi\varepsilon_0 c^2[(x^2+y^2)^{1/2}+y\dot{y}/c]_{\mathrm{ret}}}\tag{1}\\
&+&\frac{q\,[-\dot{y}]_{\mathrm{ret}}}{4\pi\varepsilon_0 c^2[(x^2+y^2)^{1/2}+(-y)(-\dot{y})/c]_{\mathrm{ret}}}\\
&=&0.
\end{eqnarray*}
$$
Along the ##x##-axis we have
$$A_x=A_y=A_z=0\tag{2}$$
and
$$\nabla \cdot \mathbf{A}=\frac{\partial A_x}{\partial x}+\frac{\partial A_y}{\partial y}+\frac{\partial A_z}{\partial z}=0.\tag{3}$$
Gauss's law is given by
$$\nabla \cdot \mathbf{E} = \frac{\rho}{\varepsilon_0}\tag{4}.$$
Using the expression for the electric field in terms of potentials
$$\mathbf{E}=-\nabla \cdot \phi - \frac{\partial \mathbf{A}}{\partial t}\tag{5}$$
we substitute eqn.##(5)## into eqn.##(4)## to obtain
$$\nabla^2 \phi + \frac{\partial}{\partial t} \nabla \cdot \mathbf{A} = -\frac{\rho}{\varepsilon_0}.\tag{6}$$
Now by substituting eqn.##(3)## into eqn.##(6)## it seems that we can assert that along the ##x##-axis Poisson's equation holds
$$\nabla^2 \phi = -\frac{\rho}{\varepsilon_0}\tag{7}$$
with the solution for the pair of charged particles
$$\phi=\frac{q}{2\pi\varepsilon_0(x^2+y^2)^{1/2}}.\tag{8}$$
By substituting eqn.##(2)## into eqn.##(5) ## we find that the ##x##-component of the electric field along the ##x##-axis is given by
$$
\begin{eqnarray*}
E_x &=& -\frac{\partial \phi}{\partial x}\tag{9}\\
&\approx& \frac{q}{2\pi\varepsilon_0 x^2} - \frac{3\,q\,y^2}{4\pi\varepsilon_0 x^4}.
\end{eqnarray*}
$$
I began with the Lorenz gauge, but the symmetry of the experimental setup appears to enforce the Coulomb gauge along the ##x##-axis.
 
Last edited:
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I set up an electrodynamics experiment with an axial symmetry which causes the vector potential to vanish.

The Lorenz gauge
$$\nabla \cdot \mathbf{A} = - \frac{1}{c^2} \frac{\partial \phi}{\partial t}$$
is usually employed in electrodynamic situations so that the scalar and vector potentials obey wave equations.

But in the above example the divergence of the vector potential along the x-axis vanishes.

This implies that the time variation of the scalar field ##\phi## also vanishes.

Thus we end up with Poisson’s equation with an instantaneous solution for the scalar potential ##\phi## along the x-axis which must be wrong.

Is there a conceptual error here?
 
In your example in post #1, ##\large \frac{\partial A_y}{\partial y} \neq 0## for points along the x-axis. So, ##\nabla \cdot \mathbf{A} \neq 0## along the x-axis.

You can verify this explicitly for the case where the two charges move with constant speed. Expressions for ##\mathbf{A}(x, y, z, t)## and ##\phi(x, y, z, t)## in the Lorenz gauge for a uniformly moving particle can be found in standard E&M textbooks. Applying these to your two-particle example, you can show that on the x-axis, ##\large \frac{\partial A_y}{\partial y} \neq 0##, ##\large \frac{\partial \phi}{\partial t} \neq 0##, and ##\nabla \cdot \mathbf{A} = \large -\frac{1}{c^2} \frac{\partial \phi}{\partial t}##.
 
Last edited:
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I presume the charges are accelerating and so would seem to radiate in the directions 45 degrees to the axes and zero along the axes.
 

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