Does the Chain Rule Apply to Gauge Transformations in Lie Groups?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the chain rule to gauge transformations in the context of Lie groups. Participants explore whether it is valid to differentiate a product of a matrix representing a Lie group and a scalar field using the chain rule, particularly focusing on the implications of treating the matrix and vector separately.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of using the chain rule for the expression {\partial}_\mu (U(g) \phi) = U(g){\partial}_\mu \phi + ({\partial}_\mu U(g)) \phi, expressing concern over separately differentiating a matrix and a vector.
  • Another participant provides a component-wise perspective, showing that the differentiation can be expressed as a sum of terms, which aligns with the proposed chain rule application.
  • A later reply supports the previous explanation, indicating that the reasoning presented makes sense and is convincing.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There appears to be general agreement among participants regarding the validity of the component-wise approach to differentiation, though the initial question reflects uncertainty about the application of the chain rule itself.

Contextual Notes

The discussion does not resolve whether the chain rule is universally applicable in this context, as it hinges on the treatment of the matrix and vector involved.

vertices
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Again, I'm not sure whether this is the best place to post this question but its to do with gauge transformations, etc.

The question itself is rather stupid...

If we have a matrix U(g) (a Lie Group) and a vector φ in C (which is a scalar in spacetime) - does it make sense to use the chain rule thus:

{\partial}_\mu (U(g) \phi) = U(g){\partial}_\mu \phi + ({\partial}_\mu U(g)) \phi

We are separately differentiating a matrix and vector - this seems very odd to me.
 
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vertices said:
Again, I'm not sure whether this is the best place to post this question but its to do with gauge transformations, etc.

The question itself is rather stupid...

If we have a matrix U(g) (a Lie Group) and a vector φ in C (which is a scalar in spacetime) - does it make sense to use the chain rule thus:

{\partial}_\mu (U(g) \phi) = U(g){\partial}_\mu \phi + ({\partial}_\mu U(g)) \phi

We are separately differentiating a matrix and vector - this seems very odd to me.

Look at it from a component point of view. The i'th component of the vector \phi' = U(g)\phi is

\phi&#039;_{i} = \sum_j U(g)_{ij}\phi_j[/itex]<br /> <br /> This is simply a sum of differentiable stuff. So differentiating gives<br /> <br /> {\partial}_\mu \phi&amp;#039;_{i} = {\partial}_\mu\left(\sum_j U(g)_{ij}\phi_j\right) = \sum_j \left({\partial}_\mu U(g)_{ij}\right)\phi_j + \sum_j U(g)_{ij}\left({\partial}_\mu\phi_j\right)[/itex]&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; Now you can identify the first term with ({\partial}_\mu U(g)) \phi and the second with U(g){\partial}_\mu \phi
 
That makes sense, and doesn't seem stupid to me.
 
xepma said:
Look at it from a component point of view. The i'th component of the vector \phi&#039; = U(g)\phi is

\phi&#039;_{i} = \sum_j U(g)_{ij}\phi_j[/itex]<br /> <br /> This is simply a sum of differentiable stuff. So differentiating gives<br /> <br /> {\partial}_\mu \phi&amp;#039;_{i} = {\partial}_\mu\left(\sum_j U(g)_{ij}\phi_j\right) = \sum_j \left({\partial}_\mu U(g)_{ij}\right)\phi_j + \sum_j U(g)_{ij}\left({\partial}_\mu\phi_j\right)[/itex]&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; Now you can identify the first term with ({\partial}_\mu U(g)) \phi and the second with U(g){\partial}_\mu \phi
&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; thanks xempa - convincing explanation:)
 

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