DOes the trace determine the Hamiltonian

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    Hamiltonian Trace
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around whether the trace of a Hamiltonian uniquely determines the Hamiltonian itself, particularly in the context of statistical mechanics and semiclassical approaches. Participants explore the implications of the trace and the function Z(s) derived from it, questioning its sufficiency for characterizing Hamiltonians.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if Z(s) is defined as Tr[exp(-sH)], then the uniqueness of the trace in determining the Hamiltonian is questionable, as different Hamiltonians could yield the same trace.
  • One participant illustrates that multiple Hamiltonians can produce the same trace by providing examples of different sets of diagonal elements that yield the same sum.
  • Another participant suggests that while the trace may not uniquely determine the Hamiltonian, the function Z(s) could potentially allow for the extraction of individual diagonal elements of H through derivatives.
  • A later reply raises the possibility that two Hamiltonians could share the same eigenvalues while differing in their potential V(x), questioning the uniqueness of the trace in infinite-dimensional cases.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the trace alone is insufficient to fully characterize a Hamiltonian, but there remains disagreement on the implications of this insufficiency and the role of the function Z(s) in determining Hamiltonian properties.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations regarding the trace's ability to provide information about off-diagonal elements of a Hamiltonian and the potential for multiple Hamiltonians to share eigenvalues while differing in other characteristics.

tpm
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if we define Z as:

[tex]Z(s)=Tr[exp(-sH)][/tex]

my 2 questions are..

a) is the trace unique and define the Hamiltonian completely? i mean if

we have 2 Hamiltonians H and K then [tex]Tr[exp(-sH)]\ne Tr[exp(-sK)[/tex]

and if we use the 'Semiclassical approach' then [tex]Z(s)=Tr[exp(-sH)]\sim As^{-1/2}\int_{-\infty}^{\infty}dx exp(-sV(x))[/tex]

then given Z(s) we could calculate approximately V(x) by solving an integral equation.
 
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1 + 2 + 3 = 6
2 + 2 + 2 = 6

Both of these could be the diagonal elements of a hamiltonian. Clearly the trace alone is not sufficient to categorize the entire hamiltonian. You get no information about the off-diagonal elements, too, which is relevant since you have not necessarily taken the trace in a basis which diagonalizes the hamiltonian.
 
As Statmechguy points out, the trace isn't sufficient to know the hamiltonian. However, the function Z(s), being a function of s, will allow you (by derivatives for instance) to find all individual diagonal elements of H.
 
Well..since the trace is just the sum of 'Eigenvalues' of a Hamiltonian, considering every Hamiltonian has an infinite number of 'energies'.. perhaps the trace is unique (in this case since Statsmechguay has only pointed a finite-dimensional case), could it Happen that both H and K had the same energies but different potential V(x) ??
 

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