Does this variant of MOND exist?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter nomadreid
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    mond
Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the exploration of Modified Newtonian Dynamics (MOND) theories, particularly a variant that proposes acceleration as a function of mass-energy density rather than traditional Newtonian acceleration. Lee Smolin's work, submitted on April 3, 2017, suggests a regime of quantum gravity where the equivalence principle is modified, leading to behaviors that align with MOND. The conversation highlights the need for more serious attempts to base MOND theories on mass-energy density, moving away from acceleration dependence, and references various academic papers that contribute to this discourse.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of Modified Newtonian Dynamics (MOND)
  • Familiarity with quantum gravity concepts
  • Knowledge of the equivalence principle in physics
  • Basic grasp of mass-energy density in astrophysics
NEXT STEPS
  • Research Lee Smolin's paper on quantum gravity phenomena (arXiv:1704.00780)
  • Explore the implications of the equivalence principle in modified gravity theories
  • Investigate the relationship between mass-energy density and gravitational attraction
  • Review recent developments in string theory related to MOND (arXiv:1001.0785, arXiv:1611.02269, arXiv:1612.03034)
USEFUL FOR

Astronomers, theoretical physicists, and researchers interested in alternative gravity theories and the implications of MOND on cosmic phenomena.

nomadreid
Gold Member
Messages
1,764
Reaction score
249
MOND theories are not very popular, but they don't seem to be going away. As I understand the original one, acceleration is a function of the amount of acceleration which would be predicted by Newton's Law. I saw a proposal recently (not yet published, hence I cannot give a reference) which makes the acceleration a function rather of the mass-energy density at each point. My question is not whether this can hold water, but whether this has been tried before.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
nomadreid said:
not yet published, hence I cannot give a reference

Without a reference, what is there to discuss?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: nomadreid
Vanadium 50 said:
Without a reference, what is there to discuss?

MOND as a regime of quantum gravity
Lee Smolin
(Submitted on 3 Apr 2017)
We propose that there is a regime of quantum gravity phenomena, for the case that the cosmological constant is small and positive, which concerns phenomena at temperatures below the deSitter temperature, or length scales larger than the horizon. We observe that the standard form of the equivalence principle does not apply in this regime; we consider instead that a weakened form of the equivalence principle might hold in which the ratio of gravitational to inertial mass is a function of environmental and global parameters. We consider possible principles to determine that function. These lead to behaviour that, in the limit of hbar to zero and the speed of light is taken to infinity, reproduces the modifications of Newtonian dynamics first proposed by Milgrom. Thus MOND is elucidated as coding the physics of a novel regime of quantum gravity phenomena.
We propose also an effective description of this regime in terms of a bi-metric theory, valid in the approximation where the metric is static. This predicts a new effect, which modifies gravity for radial motions.
Comments: LaTex 22 pages, one figure
Subjects: General Relativity and Quantum Cosmology (gr-qc); Astrophysics of Galaxies (astro-ph.GA); High Energy Physics - Theory (hep-th)
Cite as: arXiv:1704.00780 [gr-qc]
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: nomadreid
kodama said:
Cite as: arXiv:1704.00780 [gr-qc]
Many thanks, kodama! Super! Smolin's article is definitely the sort of reference I needed. :smile:

Vanadium 50: your criticism is valid, so I could modify my question as follows: most MOND theories base the variation on gravity as a function of velocity or acceleration; Smolin (see reference) varies this by investigating a divergence from the equivalence principle of inertial and gravitational mass. A more amateurish attempt to do something less subtle, basing it on mass-energy density, is given by http://www.allanstime.com/UnifiedFieldTheory/gravity.htm. I have also seen an attempt (not to be published) to make the gravitational attraction in an infinitesimal region proportional to -(∇ρ)/ρ, where ρ is the local density of mass energy in that region. I am interested in more serious attempts to wean MOND-type theories away from dependence on acceleration (which makes them look like theory-made-to-fit-data) and based on something like mass-energy density [so that the solution of the flat rotation curves of galaxies comes out as a consequence, similar to the emergence of desirable qualities from Prof. Verlinde's theory based on string theory (https://arxiv.org/abs/1001.0785, https://arxiv.org/abs/1611.02269 ) and, more recently, https://arxiv.org/abs/1612.03034 ]. So, any further references would be appreciated.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: kodama

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
4K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
5K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 72 ·
3
Replies
72
Views
10K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 62 ·
3
Replies
62
Views
11K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 68 ·
3
Replies
68
Views
4K