- #31
Thallium
- 231
- 0
I do not understand this. What is the total sum of the knowledge of the world outside you? The things others know, but you don't?
Does Transcendentalism Explain the Gap Between Knowledge and Action?
- Thread starter jammieg
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The discussion centers on the distinction between knowing something and truly understanding it. Participants explore why individuals often act contrary to their knowledge, using the example of common knowledge about the dangers of sodium and chlorine versus the safety of table salt. The conversation delves into the nature of knowledge as mere facts versus understanding as a deeper comprehension that involves experience and application. Key points include the idea that knowing is about being able to articulate facts, while understanding involves a more profound grasp of concepts that can lead to practical application. Participants reflect on the limitations of language in conveying truth and the subjective nature of witnessing and proof. They discuss how personal experiences shape understanding and the challenges of communicating complex ideas. The notion of relative versus absolute knowledge is also examined, emphasizing that true understanding transcends mere facts and requires a connection to the experience itself. Overall, the thread highlights the complexity of knowledge and understanding, suggesting that genuine comprehension is a dynamic process that involves both cognitive and experiential elements.
I do not understand this. What is the total sum of the knowledge of the world outside you? The things others know, but you don't?
- #32
phoenixthoth
- 1,600
- 2
to me it means that what is normally considered proof is actually relative, based on pretense, and not absolute.
- #33
TENYEARS
- 472
- 0
Badabing, givem a cigar. So what do you do with the wonderful gift of lack of proof which now places uncertainty upon every relative experience, thought, object known fact that has ever existed. Was Abe Lincon the president of the United States of america? I don't know, I may believe with a strong sense of proof, and yet the fact is I do not know. Is my name from birth my real name? Maybe. If these words do not affect you then they are also not real, because for these words to be real you will undoubtably feel them. To anyone that may say a word called "so", you define yourself to yourself, for those who do not, there is no definition, only a walk into the unknown. Careful the fish the swallowed Jonah is lurking nearby.
- #34
phoenixthoth
- 1,600
- 2
i think that while it is in fact difficult and would take a lot of time (LOL) to know everything, it is sufficient to KNOW at least one thing for SURE. that's the first quantum leap. the question is, are you a believer or a knower? and do you just know about or do you know? what is there available to you at all times for your "eye of the I" to peer into, to study, to wonder if it exists, to ask whose name it is but YOURSELF. i once heard on internet infidels that one cannot prove you exist and with this i wholeheartedly agreed. despite the fact that i as a mathematician cling so desparately to the notion of "proof," i also forced myself to just KNOW that i exist without a doubt. it's not just "i think therefore i am." no. i don't always think; they're are brief moments during which "time" i don't think so do i exist during those times or do i cease to exist? to me, it's more like this
1. I AM or just
2. I
it's difficult for language to express truth but statement 2 comes very close as it has no separation between a "subject" and an "object" or a subject being in a state (of existence, for example, or a reason for existence, or a proof of existence).
now if holograms have the property that all is contained in all parts, then knowing one's self would actually mean a lot if the universe were holographic, now wouldn't it?
1. I AM or just
2. I
it's difficult for language to express truth but statement 2 comes very close as it has no separation between a "subject" and an "object" or a subject being in a state (of existence, for example, or a reason for existence, or a proof of existence).
now if holograms have the property that all is contained in all parts, then knowing one's self would actually mean a lot if the universe were holographic, now wouldn't it?
- #35
jammieg
Phonix it's possible that everyone is born with some fundamental bit of certainty or one sure thing and they go through the whole process of life from that one bit outward to the rest of their brain, it's possible that the brain is kindof like a big chunck of computer that's trying to mimic the universe and so randomly people are set up with some bit and may go throughout a lifetime trying to refine that bit or discard it for a better one or what not and it's passed on through sex, but each time the various fundamental bits people have are subject to chaos or the imagination of the highier brain which puts it to some tests. If I had to guess although I think everyone may experience this, that when I get really sick I have the vision of something balancing on a thin string of which it shouldn't be able to it seems and yet it does.
My fundamental belief could be dichotomy or another silly theory and finding balance in all things, it seems like a good one because I find as long as whatever new things I try I also try the opposite and analyze the two for what I can and try to determine what sense can be made of them I don't get too lost in the cortex. Anyone who's ever taken acid has some experience with the cerebral cortex, we aren't supposed to be using things we can't wield with reason so I ended up covered in head to toe in mud for what seemed like a good reason at the time anyway. So reason may be the process of finding balance and also being able to let go and take control- the better one's balance the further they can go, that's the impression I get anyway. Or one's fundamentals could be as complex as a plutonium atom, who knows, but then how would one figure out what those fundamentals were, if such a thing were true?
My fundamental belief could be dichotomy or another silly theory and finding balance in all things, it seems like a good one because I find as long as whatever new things I try I also try the opposite and analyze the two for what I can and try to determine what sense can be made of them I don't get too lost in the cortex. Anyone who's ever taken acid has some experience with the cerebral cortex, we aren't supposed to be using things we can't wield with reason so I ended up covered in head to toe in mud for what seemed like a good reason at the time anyway. So reason may be the process of finding balance and also being able to let go and take control- the better one's balance the further they can go, that's the impression I get anyway. Or one's fundamentals could be as complex as a plutonium atom, who knows, but then how would one figure out what those fundamentals were, if such a thing were true?
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- #36
phoenixthoth
- 1,600
- 2
perhaps one may best 'figure out the fundamentals' by realizing that, well at least in my case, that i ain't going to 'figure it out.' others that are brighter than i perhaps can 'figure it out' but not me. there are other tools besides figuring though... tools that others will wholeheartedly call subjective and not a proof of anything and to that my mind would agree. i guess it's kind of like 'thinking' out of the box. you can't think your way out of a box, can you? or can you? sorry this post is so unhelpful...
- #37
TENYEARS
- 472
- 0
jammieg, you have all the ability you need to accomplish anything you want to do. The question usally avoided to oneself is what do you really want to do? Your subconscious expressing itself when you are sick interesting. You see, you are a witness to the primary expression of the subconious. That is a start, there is more.
- #38
Rader
- 765
- 0
Is lying a lie to a lier? The perspective of the I, is what makes the I lie or not.
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- #39
the_truth
- 148
- 0
Knowing is a memory.
Understanding is a pattern that you remember.
Something I know: What an apple looks like.
Something I understand: 1+1=2
Relevant situation: I am looking at two apples on a table.
Relevant thought processes involved in analysing this situation: I recognise before me an apple. I recognise before me another apple. There is 1 apple and 1 other apple. Ergo: 1+1=2. I see before me 2 apples.
Understanding is a pattern that you remember.
Something I know: What an apple looks like.
Something I understand: 1+1=2
Relevant situation: I am looking at two apples on a table.
Relevant thought processes involved in analysing this situation: I recognise before me an apple. I recognise before me another apple. There is 1 apple and 1 other apple. Ergo: 1+1=2. I see before me 2 apples.
- #40
Rader
- 765
- 0
"Truth and Reality"
"Our Reality" is what we take to be true. What we take to be true is what we believe. What we believe is based on our perceptions. What we percieve depends on what we look for. What we look for depends on what we think. What we think depends upon what we perceive. What we perceive depends on what we believe. What we believe determines what we take to be true. What we take to be true is "our reality".
But if you trully undertstand, the deep meaning behind the physics of QM," Our Reality is an illusion and everything just "Is". Which brings a totally new meaning of what "Reality" might be.
Emitte lucem Tuam et veritatem Tuam
Originally posted by the_truth
Knowing is a memory.
Understanding is a pattern that you remember.
Something I know: What an apple looks like.
Something I understand: 1+1=2
Relevant situation: I am looking at two apples on a table.
Relevant thought processes involved in analysing this situation: I recognise before me an apple. I recognise before me another apple. There is 1 apple and 1 other apple. Ergo: 1+1=2. I see before me 2 apples.
"Our Reality" is what we take to be true. What we take to be true is what we believe. What we believe is based on our perceptions. What we percieve depends on what we look for. What we look for depends on what we think. What we think depends upon what we perceive. What we perceive depends on what we believe. What we believe determines what we take to be true. What we take to be true is "our reality".
But if you trully undertstand, the deep meaning behind the physics of QM," Our Reality is an illusion and everything just "Is". Which brings a totally new meaning of what "Reality" might be.
Emitte lucem Tuam et veritatem Tuam
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- #41
Thallium
- 231
- 0
An additional comment to Rader's post:
What we define as reality is the result of our perception. That literally explained what Rader wrote. This opens the door for other and unlike comprehensions of what reality is like and if there is a "universal" reality that is palpable to every being.
What we define as reality is the result of our perception. That literally explained what Rader wrote. This opens the door for other and unlike comprehensions of what reality is like and if there is a "universal" reality that is palpable to every being.
- #42
elwestrand
- 86
- 0
transcendentalism
Well I'm a transcendentalist. I'm not very familiar with any of the writings of Emerson or Thoreau, but basically I believe that the basis of transcendentalism is that knowledge can be acquired without the senses or sensory experience. There is an essay by kant called "critique of pure reason" which is kindof about this but I have no idea what he says about it. I doubt it's even possible to be a transcendentalist and believe that the mind is reducable to the physical brain. I believe that the physical brain is just an interface for the spiritual mind (which transcends time), to take part in this existence. Kindof like a deep sea diving suit is to a diver and it allows him to travel to depths were the pressure would naturally implode his skull. Our psycical mind, senses and body are just an insturment.
Understanding cannot come from the sences or reside in the brain. Well, our course, it may have its origin through the senses and physical brain, but it is not "understood" until it transecnds that part of the mind. This is understanding. For example, Einstien did not preceive the ingredients for his theories. It came to him through intuition. The man who composed the periodic table of the elements saw it all it a dream. According to Edison, Genius (understanding) is not possible without that 1% inspiration.
Well I'm a transcendentalist. I'm not very familiar with any of the writings of Emerson or Thoreau, but basically I believe that the basis of transcendentalism is that knowledge can be acquired without the senses or sensory experience. There is an essay by kant called "critique of pure reason" which is kindof about this but I have no idea what he says about it. I doubt it's even possible to be a transcendentalist and believe that the mind is reducable to the physical brain. I believe that the physical brain is just an interface for the spiritual mind (which transcends time), to take part in this existence. Kindof like a deep sea diving suit is to a diver and it allows him to travel to depths were the pressure would naturally implode his skull. Our psycical mind, senses and body are just an insturment.
Understanding cannot come from the sences or reside in the brain. Well, our course, it may have its origin through the senses and physical brain, but it is not "understood" until it transecnds that part of the mind. This is understanding. For example, Einstien did not preceive the ingredients for his theories. It came to him through intuition. The man who composed the periodic table of the elements saw it all it a dream. According to Edison, Genius (understanding) is not possible without that 1% inspiration.
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