Drug Testing in Schools and Organizations: Addressing Adderall Abuse

[Proton Soup]

it's not meth, it's amphetamine. learn to read. or at least take some adderall, first. ;)

edit: oh, i see, there is also Desoxyn, which is meth. but that is not one you hear much about, is it?

also, I've never taken either of these, even though i think it is none of my business. I've been using caffeine and pseudoephedrine since i was about 16. and i also have a niece that is currently undergoing evaluation for her hyperactivity, and we're not sure what kind of meds she may be expected to take. she is noticeably hyper, though, and probably something organic, since she used to have seizures.

 

[micromass]

It's cheating when used during a test.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=3528848&postcount=21

I don't think most people would use it during a test. Most people take it when learning material. Such a drug help people to concentrate longer and so they can learn more material.

It remains cheating, however.

 

[Evo]

I don't think most people would use it during a test. Most people take it when learning material. Such a drug help people to concentrate longer and so they can learn more material.

It remains cheating, however.

The OP is about taking it to boost test scores.

 

[micromass]

The OP is about taking it to boost test scores.

Exactly. Being able to learn more the days before the exam will certainly boost your test scores more than if you didn't take the drug...

 

[Proton Soup]

It's cheating when used during a test.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=3528848&postcount=21

you need to define what those things mean. what is this "cognitive functioning" you speak of? i can find studies that back up the use of B-12 to increase performance, but it's a processing speed increase, not intelligence or anything like that.

 

[Proton Soup]

The OP is about taking it to boost test scores.

what if the only benefit is to reduce fatigue, and one knows that reducing fatigue boosts scores compared to one who is testing while fatigued?

 

[Evo]

what if the only benefit is to reduce fatigue, and one knows that reducing fatigue boosts scores compared to one who is testing while fatigued?

That's not the only benefit. Did you read the link?

Oh you did read the link so you're just being intentionally obtuse.

you need to define what those things mean. what is this "cognitive functioning" you speak of? i can find studies that back up the use of B-12 to increase performance, but it's a processing speed increase, not intelligence or anything like that.

Since I'm not the author of this paper, perhaps you should ask the experts that wrote it, eh?

 

[Proton Soup]

That's not the only benefit. Did you read the link?

Oh you did read the link so you're just being intentionally obtuse.



Since I'm not the author of this paper, perhaps you should ask the experts that wrote it, eh?

you're assuming all of my comments are with respect to your link, which is discussing two different drugs, apparently.

i would be happy to look up what it refers to, but it's not even a paper. it has references, but no footnotes... does it even have authors?

 

[Evo]

you're assuming all of my comments are with respect to your link, which is discussing two different drugs, apparently.

i would be happy to look up what it refers to, but it's not even a paper. it has references, but no footnotes... does it even have authors?

Gee, I guess one would have to scroll down to see the work it was taken from.

You seriously don't know how to read this? You can't find the authors?

You can't tell that it's about adderal?

Oh dear, dear, dear.

 

[Willowz]

i'm not assuming they're learning all their material in a week.

Well that's pretty much what they do on Adderall. They get tunnel vision on some task and remember stuff for a week, then *poof* its gone.

 

[Proton Soup]

OK, let's sift through individual papers.

Logan BK. Methamphetamine - Effects on Human Performance and Behavior. Forens Sci Rev 2002;14(1/2):133-51.
http://www.biblioteca.cij.gob.mx/Archivos/Materiales_de_consulta/Drogas_de_Abuso/Metanfetaminas/Articulos/methamphetamine.pdf

C.Military Use and Effects on Counteracting Fatigue
As early as 1966, it was recognized that the perfor-
mance enhancement resulting from amphetamine use was
generally significant in restoring performance in fatigued
subjects, rather than producing performance above baseline
in normal subjects [65].

and it looks like most of the rest of it is about psychomotor performance. in fact, that seems to be the real focus of the fact sheet and its references: how these drugs affect things like driving. so some evidence that these drugs help students cheat is still lacking.

 

[Proton Soup]

according to this, it's mostly hype:

http://www.nature.com/scientificamerican/journal/v301/n4/full/scientificamerican1009-46.html

 

[Evo]

OK, let's sift through individual papers.

No, go to where it specifically says (now pay attention, this is the part that applies to tests).

Performance Effects: Doses of 10-30 mg methamphetamine have shown to improve reaction time, relief fatigue, improve cognitive function testing, increase subjective feelings of alertness, increase time estimation

I did a google on abusing adderal for tests and got a HUGE number of papers.

http://www.washingtonian.com/articles/education/1729.html

If you think it's false, furnish papers to back yourself up. Post research that shows that adderal does not help in test taking.

Otherwise, don't speculate without facts.

 

[Proton Soup]

No, go to where it specifically says (now pay attention, this is the part that applies to tests).

i don't think it says what you think it says. but also check out the scientific american article at the nature link.

 

[Willowz]

OK, let's sift through individual papers.

Logan BK. Methamphetamine - Effects on Human Performance and Behavior. Forens Sci Rev 2002;14(1/2):133-51.
http://www.biblioteca.cij.gob.mx/Archivos/Materiales_de_consulta/Drogas_de_Abuso/Metanfetaminas/Articulos/methamphetamine.pdf
and it looks like most of the rest of it is about psychomotor performance. in fact, that seems to be the real focus of the fact sheet and its references: how these drugs affect things like driving. so some evidence that these drugs help students cheat is still lacking.

By "cheating" I understand; motivating a student to do something she or he couldn't do without the drug.

 

[Proton Soup]

No, go to where it specifically says (now pay attention, this is the part that applies to tests).



I did a google on abusing adderal for tests and got a HUGE number of papers.

If you think it's false, furnish papers to back yourself up. Post research that shows that adderal does not help in test taking.

Otherwise, don't speculate without facts.

test taking for whom? people with impairments or without?

is there a study on normals that supports your case?

 

[Evo]

according to this, it's mostly hype:

http://www.nature.com/scientificamerican/journal/v301/n4/full/scientificamerican1009-46.html

No, according to your article

Ethical Dissonance
Arguments about safety, fairness and coercion aside, demand is indeed high for cognitive enhancers that are otherwise prescribed for conditions such as ADHD. Based on government data gathered in 2007, more than 1.6 million people in the U.S. had used prescription stimulants nonmedically during the previous 12 months. Legal medicines in this category include methylphenidate (Ritalin), the amphetamine Adderall, and modafinil (Provigil). On some campuses, one quarter of students have reported using the drugs. And an informal online reader survey by Nature last year showed 20 percent of 1,427 respondents from 60 countries polled about their own use said they had used either methylphenidate, modafinil or beta blockers (the last for stage fright). Overall, a need for improved concentration was the reason cited most frequently. People often manage to acquire the drugs on the Internet or from doctors, who can prescribe medicines approved for one purpose to treat something else (drugmakers, however, cannot legally promote such “off label” uses).

The recent push for ethical guidelines, of course, presumes that these drugs are better than placebos and do in fact improve some aspect of cognition, be it attention, memory or “executive function” (planning and abstract reasoning, for instance).

 

[physics girl phd]

Even it if it affects attention, you still have to learn the material and retain it for the test (and hopefully longer). So I don't really care (at the college level). I can't monitor everything in my classroom, and it isn't directly hurting anyone else (but then i set my standards and tend to adhere to the strictly, limiting curving, etc. to within reason... say if a question has funny wording, etc... and my standards are high and require real processing... something cramming doesn't really work for.)

The question for a student to ask themselves: do you want to do this to your body while knowing (or not knowing) possible side effects? Or knowing its benefits?

Our middle son is on Concerta (a decision made before I became his stepmom). Really sometimes I think it does @#$% to help his attention/grades, but in his case, if he is not on it, his eyes don't even focus to adjust to light properly. We can actually see this physically... soI know it's SOME aid. But he needs to get monitored for blood pressure every 6 months to be sure it isn't too high, and get a yearly heart check at the hospital, etc. to keep an eye out of heart risk, etc. Negative side effects (usual concern heart trouble/stroke?) are increased for "users" who aren't screened by a physician, especially for at-risk pre-exisiting conditions or conflicting medication. Personally, I wouldn't think the risk worth it (especially if you can probably easily find a doctor to prescribe it/monitor you.)

I don't think the public schools should test for it. Too expensive, too paternal. Let parents be worried about this themselves. There's other things for classroom teachers to worry about... cell phone use (including cheating), kids writing stuff on desks for each other, plagiarism (especially with the internet) and perhaps even illegal drugs and overall safety. And in my limited anecdotal experience, all the students I've known legally on these meds (who have told me) still seem to have overall academic difficulty, even with the drug. I don't really see it as a fix... and barely as an aid.

 

[Proton Soup]

No, according to your article

presumes?

look, I'm not the one making an accusation of cheating, and i think a charge of cheating is pretty serious, especially in an academic environment. one of those aspects of cognition presumed there is also the illness these drugs are prescribed to treat: attention deficit. i know this is personal for you, and i don't want it to be. i just don't think that good evidence is being presented here that these drugs are giving non-impaired students a significant advantage over those without the drug who are also non-impaired.

 

[Willowz]

Isn't ADHD a behavioural problem, as in not neurological?

 

[Evo]

presumes?

look, I'm not the one making an accusation of cheating, and i think a charge of cheating is pretty serious, especially in an academic environment. one of those aspects of cognition presumed there is also the illness these drugs are prescribed to treat: attention deficit. i know this is personal for you, and i don't want it to be. i just don't think that good evidence is being presented here that these drugs are giving non-impaired students a significant advantage over those without the drug who are also non-impaired.

It's not personal for me, I don't have ADD. Nice try at a failed personal attack.

Like I said "find something that says that drugs like adderal do not have these benefits to students that don't need them.

 

[Proton Soup]

It's not personal for me, I don't have ADD. Nice try at a failed personal attack.

Like I said "find something that says that drugs like adderal do not have these benefits to students that don't need them.

how about this?

J Investig Med. 2004 Apr;52(3):192-201.
Methylphenidate does not improve cognitive function in healthy sleep-deprived young adults.
Bray CL, Cahill KS, Oshier JT, Peden CS, Theriaque DW, Flotte TR, Stacpoole PW.
Source

University of Florida College of Medicine, Gainesville, FL 32610-1042, USA. cbray@ufl.edu
Abstract
BACKGROUND:

Abuse of methylphenidate, a treatment of attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder, is reported to be increasing among students for the purpose of improving cognition.
METHODS:

A single capsule, containing methylphenidate (20 mg) or placebo, was administered to healthy young adults orally following 24 hours of sleep deprivation. Measurements included percent change in score from sleep-deprived baseline on four standardized tests of cognitive function: Hopkins Verbal Learning, Digit Span, Modified Stroop, and Trail Making tests. Measurements also included percent changes in blood pressure and heart rate from sleep-deprived baseline and plasma methylphenidate concentration.
RESULTS:

Differences in cognitive test performance were not observed between intervention groups. In subjects receiving methylphenidate, mean percent changes from baseline for systolic blood pressure and heart rate were increased relative to placebo between 90 and 210 minutes following capsule administration (maximum increases of 9.45% and 11.03%, respectively). The timing of peak differences in physiologic measures did not correlate with peak serum methylphenidate concentrations. Exit questionnaire ratings of "capsule effect" and perceived performance on the postcapsule administration of the most challenging cognitive test were both higher (p = .044 and p = .009, respectively) for the methylphenidate group than for the placebo group.
CONCLUSIONS:

Cognitive improvement among sleep-deprived young adults was not observed following methylphenidate administration. Benefits perceived by abusers may relate to increased confidence and sense of well-being, as well as to sympathetic nervous system stimulation. Moreover, methylphenidate administration results in physiologic effects that could be harmful to certain individuals.

PMID:
15222409
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[KingNothing]

They check athletes for drugs that artificially enhance their performance, so I would not be against it in schools.

Do they? Actually, I don't think the schools do. I believe it's typically athletic commissions that do the testing. It would make zero sense to have the schools administer tests to their own athletes (and trust the results).

IMO, it's not only not the school's business, but it's not the responsibility to pay to have students tested. And why is it considered bad at all? I haven't seen anything citing negative long-term effects from short-term usage... Frankly we should encourage students to push themselves into becoming better students rather than telling them 'no' so that everyone else can stop crying about how unfair it is...

By the way, getting a legal prescription is easy as cake. I know a lot of people that used to get prescriptions both for themselves and to sell for some extra $$.

 

[Mororvia]

I don't think most people would use it during a test. Most people take it when learning material. Such a drug help people to concentrate longer and so they can learn more material.

It remains cheating, however.

Agree with statement one. Disagree with statement two.

I'm not going to try and influence folks over to my side as I think this is in the arena of opinion at this point and not so cut-and-dry as to be absolutely right or wrong. I shall go back to lurking the thread