Earth's formation & Late Heavy Bombardment

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Widdekind
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Formation
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the formation of Earth and the Late Heavy Bombardment, focusing on the accumulation of space debris and its implications for Earth's mass over time. Participants explore models of mass accumulation and challenge the assumptions underlying these models, engaging in a debate about the validity of various claims and theories.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a model suggesting that Earth's accumulation of space dust has declined exponentially, proposing numerical values for the accumulation rate and its implications for Earth's mass over geological time.
  • Another participant questions the validity of the model, arguing that the assumptions made about mass accumulation before and after the Sun ignited are unjustified and overly simplistic.
  • A third participant critiques the initial model, suggesting that it circularly supports the claim that most accretion occurred early in Earth's history.
  • Further criticism is directed at the model for contradicting established planetary formation theories, emphasizing that mass accumulation rates likely increased as Earth's mass grew, rather than following a simple exponential decay.
  • Participants point out that the late heavy bombardment is characterized by a distinct spike in mass accumulation, potentially linked to the migration of Neptune and Uranus, which contradicts the initial model's implications.
  • Concerns are raised about the selection of the specific accumulation rate of 40,000 tons/year, with some participants noting a wide range of estimates from various sources.
  • Evidence is cited suggesting that rocks older than the late heavy bombardment exist, indicating that the Earth was largely formed much earlier than the proposed model suggests.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express significant disagreement regarding the validity of the proposed model and its assumptions. There is no consensus on the claims made, and multiple competing views remain regarding Earth's formation and the implications of the Late Heavy Bombardment.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the initial model, including its reliance on specific numerical values and assumptions about mass accumulation that may not align with observational data. The discussion reflects ongoing uncertainties in the understanding of early Earth processes.

Widdekind
Messages
132
Reaction score
0
According to the History Channel documentary Comets -- Prophets of Doom (DVD), Earth today accumulates "30 to 40 thousand tons of space dust per year".

CRUDE MODEL:

We imagine that the accumulation rate of space debris declines exponentially:
rate = T \times e^{-\frac{t}{\tau}}​
We then demand that:
T \times e^{-\frac{4.5 \, billion}{\tau}} = 40,000 \, tons \, year^{-1}​
and
\int_{0}^{4.5 \, billion} T \times e^{-\frac{t}{\tau}} dt = M_{Earth}​
Solving this system of equations numerically yields:
T \approx 3 \times 10^{13} tons \, year^{-1}
\tau \approx 200 \, million \, years​
This suggests, that Earth only reached ~98% of its present mass after 4\tau = 800 million years. Since Earth is ~4.6 billion years old, this suggests, that the early Earth was accumulating considerable mass until ~3.8 billion years ago. Perhaps surprisingly, this agrees w/ Geological evidence, that Earth's Late Heavy Bombardment persisted until ~3.8 billion years ago*. Before this time, Earth was significantly (2-40%) smaller than today, explaining why no prior rocks** have (to date) been found.
* James F. Luhr. (DK) Earth -- the Definitive Visual Guide, pp. 26-29.
** ibid., Zircon crystals have been found from ~4 billion years ago.
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
This is far too speculative and contains far too many unjustified assumptions. In particular, what makes you think that mass accumulation in the protoplanetary disk is anything like the mass accumulation after the Sun ignited, and that mass accumulation after solar ignition follows a simple exponential decay?

If this is your own pet theory, we have rules against that. If this is something you can justify from peer-reviewed literature, please post a reference.
 
You start with a model with the majority of the accretion occurring at early times. You then use this to show that the majority of the accretion occurs at early times.

OK...I guess.
 
What Widdekind has done here is anything but OK. It flies in the face of extant planetary formation theory. This forum is not the place for personal conjectures.

The standard model indicates that the planets formed fairly quickly. For example, see http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v418/n6901/abs/nature00995.html.

That simple exponential decay in the accumulation rate is too simple. It indicates a maximal rate occurred when the Earth's mass was zero. This is simply wrong. Think of a snowball rolling down a hill. A snowball's mass accumulation rate increases as its mass increases (it is roughly proportional to the surface area, or m2/3). While the snowball analogy is just that -- an analogy -- there are good reasons to think that the Earth's mass accumulation rate also increased as the Earth's mass grew.

By Widdekind's simple model, there is nothing special to mark the late heavy bombardment. This, too, flies in the standard models. The late heavy bombardment period represents a distinct spike in mass accumulation. One explanation is the outward migration of Neptune and Uranus toward to Kuiper belt. For example, see http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v435/n7041/full/nature03676.html.

Widdekind appears to have cherry-picked the number 40,000 tons/year. It's a bit hard to track down good numbers; I found estimates on non-crackpot sites ranging from 20,000 tons per year to 200 million tons per year. A higher number is not good for Widdekind's conjecture.

Finally, there is evidence of rocks considerably older than the late heavy bombardment. For example, see http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/09/080925-oldest-rocks.html. These early rocks jibe with the Earth being essentially fully formed 4.6 billion years ago. The late heavy bombardment was simply a period of increased bombardment that did not change the Earth's mass by much. The reason we don't see many very old rocks is because of plate tectonics rather than as a result of burying by continued bombardment.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I guess my point was that all that Widdenkind got out is what he put in. As you point out, that doesn't match any observations.

D H said:
Widdekind appears to have cherry-picked the number 40,000 tons/year.

Well, he does have a https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=278009" of that.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
locking as OP is being over-speculative
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
3K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
12K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 33 ·
2
Replies
33
Views
5K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
6K