Election spurs 'hundreds' of race threats, crimes

[Evo]

This is so wrong. What is wrong with America? Why is racism still so widespread? The little boy in the article stating Obama should be assisinated is one answer. He's been taught by his parents. Racism is taught, and like other beliefs that are taught and are part of the culture a child grows up in, they are very hard to overcome.

Cross burnings. Schoolchildren chanting "Assassinate Obama." Black figures hung from nooses. Racial epithets scrawled on homes and cars.

Incidents around the country referring to President-elect Barack Obama are dampening the postelection glow of racial progress and harmony, highlighting the stubborn racism that remains in America.

From California to Maine, police have documented a range of alleged crimes, from vandalism and vague threats to at least one physical attack. Insults and taunts have been delivered by adults, college students and second-graders.

There have been "hundreds" of incidents since the election, many more than usual, said Mark Potok, director of the Intelligence Project at the Southern Poverty Law Center, which monitors hate crimes.

One was in Snellville, Ga., where Denene Millner said a boy on the school bus told her 9-year-old daughter the day after the election: "I hope Obama gets assassinated." That night, someone trashed her sister-in-law's front lawn, mangled the Obama lawn signs, and left two pizza boxes filled with human feces outside the front door, Millner said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081116/ap_on_re_us/obama_racial

 

[Hurkyl]

My sensationalism detector is ringing. I always become suspicious when articles just throw a string of testimonials in your face.

Why is racism still so widespread?

Is it really? "'Hundreds' of incidents"? That could be as few as 4 people per state doing something nasty, hardly 'widespread'.

 

[Cyrus]

My sensationalism detector is ringing. I always become suspicious when articles just throw a string of testimonials in your face.


Is it really? "'Hundreds' of incidents"? That could be as few as 4 people per state doing something nasty, hardly 'widespread'.

Did you see the clip of people at the McCain/Palin rally? Al-Jazera interviewed people saying oh that n-word is just a puppet. Etc etc. They were saying this AT A RALLY TO A CAMERA!

Racism is still out there, sadly. How about you ask Ivan what its like where he lives?

 

[LowlyPion]

This is so wrong. What is wrong with America? Why is racism still so widespread? The little boy in the article stating Obama should be assisinated is one answer. He's been taught by his parents. Racism is taught, and like other beliefs that are taught and are part of the culture a child grows up in, they are very hard to overcome.

I think it's somewhat because the press is sensitive to this kind of racism at this time since this historic election. I also think it's because the Federal crime of threats against a President makes any such utterances newsworthy.

This is not to say that such ignorant expressions of racism are to be tolerated or in any way to be excused. And yes there is a certain thoughtless element that despite the best efforts to educate apparently still chooses to attract attention through scandal. But I don't know that there is any great change in attitudes such as any dramatic tilt toward increased racism.

 

[WarPhalange]

Oh. I thought "race threats", like those fund raising races or something. Wow, I guess I'm tired.

Yeah, this really brought out the ugly side of America. Well, I don't care about the ugly side, but the stupid side, yeah. The fact is that Obama's tax breaks will benefit most of the hicks calling him a socialist. That is downright stupid. I mean, the racism should have raised the "this person is an idiot" flag, but things like that just show how stupid those people really are.

They are what's wrong with the Republican party. It's about time to cut them F-ing loose. Have a Green party for the GOP and let all those idiots vote for whoever they want. I mean at least the left-wing extremists are hippies who don't even vote, so they are pretty harmless.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I tend to think of this as nothing but a birthpang of the new age. In four years, provided that Obama does a respectable job, I think racism will find a much smaller foothold. Just as they did with mixed school, mixed restrooms, and mixed marriages, people will adjust.

 

[Andre]

This is so wrong. What is wrong with America? Why is racism still so widespread? The little boy in the article stating Obama should be assisinated is one answer.

And it takes only one idiot with a lethal weapon to get 1963 back

 

[Vanadium 50]

So I took a look at the Southern Poverty Law Center's statistics on their web page. They have 408 listed for 2008 to date, so extrapolating to 12 months, one would expect 461 for the year. 2007 had 445. So we're talking about an increase of 4 +/- 7%. With numbers like that, I wouldn't want to argue there's a significant increase at all, much less try to argue a specific cause for it.

I also think 445, 408 or 461 needs to be compared to the 300 million or so US inhabitants. So we're talking just over 1 per million per year. The actual homicide rate is, just to compare, 56 per million per year.

I would agree that this sounds like sensationalism.

 

[cristo]

I don't think such open acts of racism are surprising: after all, if they were, then it wouldn't be such a big deal to have voted in the first black president.

I remember a statistic that was shown on the TV on election night: "Would the fact that a candidate is black prevent you from voting for him? 90% say no." That's all well and good, until you actually think that this means 10% of Americans wouldn't vote for someone solely based on the fact that they are black. That is, there are around 30 million people in the US who are racist.

So, yes, racism is still widespread in the US, and in other western countries. Let's hope the new president can do something to quash it!

 

[momentum_wave]

Racism is a crime against humanity.

Obama stands to make the US proud. Give the man a chance & the space to prove himself & his team. Goodness knows, the US really needs to be making friends at this point - both within & without.

 

[Astronuc]

With respect to the Southern Poverty Law Center's statistics, the page states

These incidents include only a fraction of the approximately 191,000 reported and unreported hate crimes that a 2005 government report estimated occur annually.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/hatewatch/fortherecord.jsp

The 408 is just a small number of the total, and that is through the 3Q of 2008.
The county in which I live has a few incidents per year. I keep in contact with the director of the local Human Rights Commission.

The SPLC's Intelligence Project tracks more than 800 hate groups around the nation.
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intpro.jsp

 

[Moonbear]

My sensationalism detector is ringing. I always become suspicious when articles just throw a string of testimonials in your face.


Is it really? "'Hundreds' of incidents"? That could be as few as 4 people per state doing something nasty, hardly 'widespread'.

I wonder the same thing. When the article also says some of what's being reported are "vague threats," I wonder how vague and is there any increase in actual crimes or an increase in people reporting things as crimes that aren't? Obvious vandalism, yes, that counts as crimes, but "vague threats?" What does that even mean?

BTW, there's also a huge double standard about what counts as a race threat/crime. Remember all those news stories about the house that had hung a figure of Palin for Halloween? Those homeowners were just asked to take that down, and never charged for any crime. Had that been Obama, you can guarantee nobody would have even considered asking to take it down before they found themselves in handcuffs charged with a hate crime.

As for destroying yard signs, that happens every election year. It's really unfortunate that people are so ill-behaved toward their neighbors, but a ton of that happened during the Bush/Kerry election too.
I can only refer to a snopes article for evidence it was happening, since finding 4-year old articles archived from actual news sources is difficult http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/signs.asp

So, if they're counting those at hate crimes just because they're Obama signs, someone better get their definitions straight. Of course, nobody destroys political yard signs in non-election years, because nobody has any on display.

 

[wildman]

I am glad I don't work for the Secret Service. Boy they have a tough job this time.

 

[CRGreathouse]

BTW, there's also a huge double standard about what counts as a race threat/crime. Remember all those news stories about the house that had hung a figure of Palin for Halloween? Those homeowners were just asked to take that down, and never charged for any crime. Had that been Obama, you can guarantee nobody would have even considered asking to take it down before they found themselves in handcuffs charged with a hate crime.

You know that this actually happened, right? In response to the Palin hanging-in-effigy, someone did something similar with Obama and was arrested the following day.

 

[edward]

There is nothing vague about this:

 

[russ_watters]

You consider that to be a specific threat? Really?

But here, if it'll make you feel better, you can play an online game where you can shoot George Bush: http://www.pictogame.com/play/game/aOM6TtpFCKHE_kill-bush

There are a lot of them, actually. I got some great hits when I googled "kill bush".

Or if you'd prefer to see Bush die in live action, you can just watch the movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0853096/

 

[Ivan Seeking]

You know that this actually happened, right? In response to the Palin hanging-in-effigy, someone did something similar with Obama and was arrested the following day.

Who? I wasn't aware of anyone being arrested for this.

 

[russ_watters]

Who? I wasn't aware of anyone being arrested for this.

A quick google finds this: http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/10/30/obama.effigy/

Not sure if it was the incident in question.

 

[russ_watters]

But I do agree with the homeowners here: A Palin effigy is definitely fun! http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/10/27/gov-palin-effigy-in-a-noose-halloween-fun-or-going-too-far/

 

[russ_watters]

And I always love the irony of peace activists who get upset about being handcuffed by their ideology. Here's a Nobel Peace Prize winner who wishes she could reconcile killing bush with her nonviolent ideology:

"Right now, I could kill George Bush," she said. "No, I don't mean that. How could you nonviolently kill somebody? I would love to be able to do that." As she made her point, she chuckled and some members of the audience laughed.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/nation/stories/DN-peace_12nat.ART.State.Edition1.43b8067.html

 

[LowlyPion]

Interesting statistics as regards hate crimes:

Table 2 – Estimated Hate Crime Rates per 100,000 people
Category 		Avg 95-05	Est Pop		Est Hate Crime Rate
African Americans	2,884		34,658,190  	8 per 100,000
Muslims 		112		1,742,112 	12 per 100,000
Gay, Lesbians Bi	1,191 		9,460,000 	13 per 100,000
Jews 			1,024 		6,155,000 	15 per 100,000
.

https://www.law.ucla.edu/williamsinstitute/publications/Comparison%20of%20Hate%20Crime%20Formatted.pdf

 

[LowlyPion]

Remember all those news stories about the house that had hung a figure of Palin for Halloween? Those homeowners were just asked to take that down, and never charged for any crime.

What crime would you suggest for that?

It was after all Halloween and the thought of that woman as President should curl the hair of a bald man. Should they have as well have been arrested for depicting McCain sprouting from their chimney amid a bouquet of flames from hell?

That is in comparison to the Obama effigy incident that was hung as a ghost?

Perhaps where you come from "spook" is not a racially charged term, but I rather suspect its meaning is not lost on the African American community.

 

[LowlyPion]

But I do agree with the homeowners here: A Palin effigy is definitely fun!

I'd say GretaWire is hardly an impartial source. She's become a Palin 2012 cheerleader, already trying overtime to help Palin in her attempts to rewrite her narcissisticly inspired revisionist history. After this weekend it seems that she's bordering on becoming a Palin infomercial with her unctuous references and looping of her interviews with Palin's vapid responses.

 

[Moonbear]

What crime would you suggest for that?

It was after all Halloween and the thought of that woman as President should curl the hair of a bald man. Should they have as well have been arrested for depicting McCain sprouting from their chimney amid a bouquet of flames from hell?

That is in comparison to the Obama effigy incident that was hung as a ghost?

Perhaps where you come from "spook" is not a racially charged term, but I rather suspect its meaning is not lost on the African American community.

Your entire post is a perfect example of the real racism in action. You'd give a pass to hanging Palin in effigy, but not Obama. Why? Because Obama is black? Get over it. He's not entitled to special privileges because of the color of his skin. He's a public figure and should be given only as much consideration as any other public figure. But, of course, you'd let your hatred of Palin completely overshadow reason here.

I don't actually know of ANY incidents of Obama being hung in effigy. I only know of the very widely televised one of Palin being hung in effigy. Where's your outrage at such a hate crime? If you can't see anything wrong with it, then why do you so quickly find something wrong when the same thing is done with regard to another political candidate? Why the double standard? Either you give everyone a pass on it, or you prosecute them all for the same crime. If you make special rules for some candidates based on the color of their skin, then you are being racist.

Personally, I've never been a big fan of the whole term "hate crime." That requires somehow getting inside someone's head and subjectively determining intent rather than basing the law on objective facts. If you destroy someone else's property, that's already a crime as vandalism. If you threaten to beat up someone, that's already the crime of assault. If you carry through on that thread and actually beat them up, that's already the crime of assault and battery. To give certain groups of victims different status, and worsen the penalty for a criminal if his or her skin color is different from that of the person they are committing the crime against is itself inherently racist. This isn't solving any problems, it's just making the problem worse by creating special legal classes based on race or sexual orientation.

 

[russ_watters]

Interesting statistics as regards hate crimes:

Table 2 – Estimated Hate Crime Rates per 100,000 people
Category 		Avg 95-05	Est Pop		Est Hate Crime Rate
African Americans	2,884		34,658,190  	8 per 100,000
Muslims 		112		1,742,112 	12 per 100,000
Gay, Lesbians Bi	1,191 		9,460,000 	13 per 100,000
Jews 			1,024 		6,155,000 	15 per 100,000
.

https://www.law.ucla.edu/williamsinstitute/publications/Comparison%20of%20Hate%20Crime%20Formatted.pdf

What's interesting? The fact that whites aren't listed there?

 

[Art]

What's interesting? The fact that whites aren't listed there?

Duh! These are the figures for the victims of hate crimes Obviously hate crimes against whites aren't statistically enough relevant to warrant inclusion

 

[edward]

You consider that to be a specific threat? Really?

But here, if it'll make you feel better, you can play an online game where you can shoot George Bush

You can also find games where you can shoot cops and illegal aliens. I would imagiine by what we have already seen that the Kill Obama games are soon to come.

This lady wasn't talking about video games. She was live on FOX news.

Or if you'd prefer to see Bush die in live action, you can just watch the movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0853096/

I protested that movie on this very forum because of the violent content involving a sitting president. I was blasted with the free speech argument.

 

[LowlyPion]

I only know of the very widely televised one of Palin being hung in effigy. Where's your outrage at such a hate crime? If you can't see anything wrong with it, then why do you so quickly find something wrong when the same thing is done with regard to another political candidate?

For one thing Palin hung in effigy looks a bit more like political expression. (Certainly within the context of McCain popping from a burning chimney.) Now perhaps you could make it a hate crime against the retarded or some extreme interpretation like that, or even a hate crime against women. But I think the plain fact of the matter is the difficulty in distinguishing it from political expression.

On the other hand blacks have historically been subjected to overt racism. Such highly charged displays as hanging a ghost sheet with Obama's face pasted on, hung from a tree in a manner that conjures the KKK dispensing justice in a most unAmerican way certainly in my mind suggests that it is an excessively charged expression that transcends mere political statement and incorporates racial overtone.

So that you can't say that you haven't seen it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV_8-Wqoa_I

The Star of David on the head doesn't seem to add any to the notion that it is anything but an expression of hate.

 

[Art]

Your entire post is a perfect example of the real racism in action. You'd give a pass to hanging Palin in effigy, but not Obama. Why? Because Obama is black? Get over it. He's not entitled to special privileges because of the color of his skin. He's a public figure and should be given only as much consideration as any other public figure. But, of course, you'd let your hatred of Palin completely overshadow reason here.

I don't actually know of ANY incidents of Obama being hung in effigy. I only know of the very widely televised one of Palin being hung in effigy. Where's your outrage at such a hate crime? If you can't see anything wrong with it, then why do you so quickly find something wrong when the same thing is done with regard to another political candidate? Why the double standard? Either you give everyone a pass on it, or you prosecute them all for the same crime. If you make special rules for some candidates based on the color of their skin, then you are being racist.

Personally, I've never been a big fan of the whole term "hate crime." That requires somehow getting inside someone's head and subjectively determining intent rather than basing the law on objective facts. If you destroy someone else's property, that's already a crime as vandalism. If you threaten to beat up someone, that's already the crime of assault. If you carry through on that thread and actually beat them up, that's already the crime of assault and battery. To give certain groups of victims different status, and worsen the penalty for a criminal if his or her skin color is different from that of the person they are committing the crime against is itself inherently racist. This isn't solving any problems, it's just making the problem worse by creating special legal classes based on race or sexual orientation.

If blacks had a history of hanging white folk in the USA and a black then hanged an effigy of Palin then yes it would be a racist hate crime but as that isn't the case your 'argument' is shallow and without substance. Having said that hanging an effigy of any living politician is tasteless and wrong whatever the underlying motive.

 

[LowlyPion]

Having said that hanging an effigy of any living politician is tasteless and wrong whatever the underlying motive.

I agree with that as well. Lest anyone think that I would subscribe to those guys' expression in West Hollywood, I don't. I think it is counter productive and divisive. But it is politics. And as such it isn't exactly illegal and as much as it is not to my taste, I think it qualifies as protected speech, failing any interpretation that it was directed at Palin for say being a woman as opposed to say her infantilized grasp of national issues.

 

[Gokul43201]

What's interesting?

You don't find it interesting that Jews appear to be targeted at a greater rate than Muslims?

 

[LowlyPion]

Christian Science Monitor article on racially motivated expressions:

After Obama's win, white backlash festers in US
The election of a black president triggered at least 200 hate-related incidents, a watchdog group finds.
By Patrik Jonsson | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

from the November 17, 2008 edition
Atlanta - In rural Georgia, a group of high-schoolers gets a visit from the Secret Service after posting "inappropriate" comments about President-elect Barack Obama on the Web. In Raleigh, N.C., four college students admit to spraying race-tinged graffiti in a pedestrian tunnel after the election. On Nov. 6, a cross burns on the lawn of a biracial couple in Apolacon Township, Pa.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1117/p03s01-uspo.html

 

[LowlyPion]

I guess the comments referenced during the election by Carville about the "T between Pittsburgh and Philly" being "Alabama in between" wasn't so far off the mark.

Apolacon Twnshp, site of the cross burning, is in the Eastern part of the T north of Scranton.

 

[Proton Soup]

You don't find it interesting that Jews appear to be targeted at a greater rate than Muslims?

i have a hard time believing it. it could be that jews are just better about filing complaints.

 

[mheslep]

... Why the double standard? Either you give everyone a pass on it, or you prosecute them all for the same crime. If you make special rules for some candidates based on the color of their skin, then you are being racist. ...

Yes. Or, as Justice Roberts wrote, "The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race"