Electromagnetic interactions and exchange particles

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around electromagnetic interactions and exchange particles, particularly in the context of protons and neutrons within a nucleus. Participants explore the nature of photons as exchange particles, the role of neutral pions in strong interactions, and the concept of virtual particles in these interactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question how exchange photons exist in the nucleus, proposing that they may be constantly emitted or stay within the nucleus.
  • It is noted that most photon exchanges are virtual, and the gluon is identified as the gauge boson for strong interactions, while pions mediate residual forces between colorless states.
  • There is a discussion about the existence of photons in hadrons, with some arguing that photons do not "exist" in the same way as gluons do.
  • One participant expresses a desire to research the concept of residual forces and color structures related to quark interactions.
  • Another participant suggests that virtual particles can be viewed as mathematical artifacts rather than entities that can be counted.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of virtual particles and their existence within hadrons. There is no consensus on how to interpret the role of photons in these interactions, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of virtual particles.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the complexity of color charge and color neutrality in quark interactions, as well as the mathematical treatment of virtual particles in Feynman diagrams. These aspects highlight the nuanced understanding required to engage with the topic.

ninjaduck
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Protons are in very close proximity with each other in a nucleus. This means there is constant electromagnetic interaction, of which the exchange particle is a photon. What determines the wavelength of this exchange photon? How do they exist in the nucleus: constantly being emitted, or staying inside the nucleus somehow?

Also, how can a neutral pion be an exchange particle in, say, a proton-neutron collision. Being a strong interaction, aren't gluons the gauge bosons?

I have a hard time thinking about this kind of stuff.
 
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ninjaduck said:
How do they exist in the nucleus: constantly being emitted, or staying inside the nucleus somehow?

They do not, most photon exchanges are virtual.

ninjaduck said:
Also, how can a neutral pion be an exchange particle in, say, a proton-neutron collision. Being a strong interaction, aren't gluons the gauge bosons?
The gluon is the gauge boson. Pions mediate a residual force between colourless states with internal colour structure.
 
Orodruin said:
They do not, most photon exchanges are virtual.The gluon is the gauge boson. Pions mediate a residual force between colourless states with internal colour structure.

Virtual, but still there and still existent surely. What happens to the photon?

I'm just going to research the pion question. Residual force, colourless states, colour structures...
 
ninjaduck said:
Virtual, but still there and still existent surely. What happens to the photon?
They exist in the hadrons in the same sense that gluons do, with the difference that gluons provide a larger part of the momentum when looking at the structure functions. You cannot say that a photon "exists" in the hadron.

You might as well ask what happens to the photon during electrostatic interaction between two charges.
 
Orodruin said:
They exist in the hadrons in the same sense that gluons do, with the difference that gluons provide a larger part of the momentum when looking at the structure functions. You cannot say that a photon "exists" in the hadron.

You might as well ask what happens to the photon during electrostatic interaction between two charges.

Would you mind if I asked that now?
 
ninjaduck said:
I'm just going to research the pion question. Residual force, colourless states, colour structures...

Not so difficult to research... All the quark bound states, like protons, neutrons etc, are color-neutral (they don't have a color charge)= colorless states. However their constituents (quarks, gluons) are colorful particles (they have a color charge) =internal color structures for Orodruin.
Now how does the color neutral proton interact with the color neutral proton/neutron through a strong interaction? (here comes the "pions' residual force").

As for the internal lines of the photons, they don't exist as photons. They are virtual particles. At the end, when you want to derive their total contribution, you integrate them out (that is what someone writes in Feynman Diagrams and not the actual process).
 
ninjaduck said:
Virtual, but still there and still existent surely.
There are good arguments to call them mathematical artifacts. That is not "existing" with the usual meaning of the word.
It's not like there would be some number of photons you could count.
 

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