Electromagnetism question (Vector integration).

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the force exerted by an external electric field on a charge distribution, specifically focusing on the expression involving the electric field at the origin and the electric dipole moment.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the integration of the force expression and the application of Taylor expansion to the electric field. Questions arise regarding the correctness of the Taylor expansion used and the application of integration by parts in three dimensions.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing examination of the mathematical steps involved, with some participants identifying potential mistakes in the Taylor expansion and integration techniques. Guidance has been offered regarding the correct formulation of the Taylor expansion for vector fields and the nuances of integration by parts in three dimensions.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of a homework problem, which may limit the information available and the assumptions that can be made about the charge distribution and electric field.

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Homework Statement


Show that the force caused by external electric field on a charge distribution is given by:
[tex]F=qE(0)+(p\cdot \nabla)E(0)+...[/tex] (it's enough to show the first two terms), where E(0) is the electric field in the origin which we choose to develop the expression around it.
p is the electric dipole.


Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution


So, [tex]F=\int d^3 r E(r)\rho(r)[/tex], from integration by parts I get:
[tex]F= r \rho(r) E(r) -\int r[\nabla(\rho(r)) E(r) +div(E(r))\rho(r)]d^3 r[/tex]
Now I develop E(r) around E(0) by taylor expansion: [tex]E(r)=E(0)+div(E(0))r+...[/tex], so div(E(r))=div(E(0))+...
Now the first term in F is zero by boundary conditions, Now I know that [tex]p=\int d^3 r \rho(r) r[/tex], but if I plug div(E(r))=div(E(0))+... to the third term I get something else than the second term in the question, the first term I do get, because: [tex]\int r \nabla(rho) d^3 r=r\rho(r) - \int \rho(r) d^3r[/tex] and plugging it back and inserting E(r)=E(0)+div(E(0))r... I get that the third term is: div(E(0))p, and the second term is -2div(E(0))p+-qE(0), so in summary I get: qE(0)+p.div(E(0))+...
But it's not the same as what I need to show here, but I don't see where did I got this wrong, can someone enlight me?
 
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MathematicalPhysicist said:
So, [tex]F=\int d^3 r E(r)\rho(r)[/tex], from integration by parts I get:
[tex]F= r \rho(r) E(r) -\int r[\nabla(\rho(r)) E(r) +div(E(r))\rho(r)]d^3 r[/tex]

How exactly are you coming up with this?:confused:

Now I develop E(r) around E(0) by taylor expansion: [tex]E(r)=E(0)+div(E(0))r+...[/tex]

You also seem to be using the wrong formula for the Taylor expansion of a vector field...where are you getting this from?
 
Ok, I think I got my mistake, the taylor expansion should be:
[tex]E(r)=E(0)+r\cdot\nabla E(0)+...[/tex]
correct?
 
For the first question, I guess I take [tex]u=E(r)\rho(r)[/tex] and [tex]v=r[/tex] in integration by parts, where I use (uv)'=u'v+uv'.
 
MathematicalPhysicist said:
Ok, I think I got my mistake, the taylor expansion should be:
[tex]E(r)=E(0)+r\cdot\nabla E(0)+...[/tex]
correct?

That looks better!:smile:
 
MathematicalPhysicist said:
For the first question, I guess I take [tex]u=E(r)\rho(r)[/tex] and [tex]v=r[/tex] in integration by parts, where I use (uv)'=u'v+uv'.

No, integration by parts doesn't work the same way in 3 dimensions as it does in one. You are trying to compute a volume integral (over [itex]d^3\textbf{r}[/itex]), not just an integral over [itex]r[/itex].

In vector Calculus, there are actually six product rules and none of them help you here.
 
OK, thanks I see how to solve it now, it's quite immediate.
 

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