Elliptic Curve y^2 = x^3 +17; show N_p = p

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the elliptic curve defined by y^2 = x^3 + 17, specifically exploring the theorem that states if p is an odd prime and p≡2 (mod 3), then the number of solutions N_p mod p is equal to p. Participants seek to understand the proof and underlying concepts related to this theorem, including aspects of number theory and quadratic residues.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that if p is an odd prime and p≡2 (mod 3), then N_p = p for the elliptic curve y^2 = x^3 + 17.
  • One participant notes that solutions occur in pairs unless y' = 0, suggesting a symmetry in the solutions.
  • Another participant discusses the implications of distinct u and v values leading to a specific quadratic residue condition, stating that since -3 is not a quadratic residue mod p, it follows that v must equal u.
  • There is a clarification that gcd(p-1, 3) = 1 is relevant for the argument regarding the reduced residue system.
  • Participants question the completeness of the residue system formed by the cubic powers and how it relates to proving N_p = p.
  • One participant expresses confusion about the necessity of proving certain conditions and the derivation of specific equations related to quadratic residues.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the proof of N_p = p, as participants express confusion and seek clarification on various points. Multiple competing views and interpretations of the mathematical arguments remain present throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for understanding the properties of quadratic residues and the implications of distinct values in the context of the elliptic curve. Some assumptions regarding the completeness of residue systems and the nature of quadratic residues are not fully resolved.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in elliptic curves, number theory, and mathematical proofs related to modular arithmetic may find this discussion beneficial.

kingwinner
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Theorem: Suppose that p is an odd prime and p≡2 (mod 3). Let E be the elliptic curve defined by [tex]y^2 = x^3 + 17[/tex]. Then [tex]N_p[/tex], the number of solutions mod p of the elliptic curve E, is exactly equal to p.
[hint: if p is a prime, then [tex]1^k, 2^k, ..., (p-1)^k[/tex] form a reduced residue system (mod p) if and only if gcd(k, p-1)=1.]

Does anyone have any idea how to prove that [tex]N_p = p[/tex]?
Any help is greatly appreciated! :) (If possible, please explain in simpler terms. In particular, I have no background in abstract algebra.)
 
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kingwinner said:
Theorem: Suppose that p is an odd prime and p≡2 (mod 3). Let E be the elliptic curve defined by [tex]y^2 = x^3 + 17[/tex]. Then [tex]N_p[/tex], the number of solutions mod p of the elliptic curve E, is exactly equal to p.
[hint: if p is a prime, then [tex]1^k, 2^k, ..., (p-1)^k[/tex] form a reduced residue system (mod p) if and only if gcd(k, p-1)=1.]
I almost funked at this at the first sight :-p . The problem doesn't require any algebraic number theory as I thought.
First, note that p is not 3 . Also, if (x',y') is a solution, so is (x',-y'). Thus, the solutions occur in pairs unless when y'=0 . (I)
If y*^2 = u^3 + 17 = v^3 + 17 with u,v distinct mod p, we must have
u^2+uv+v^2 =0 (mod p). Thus, (2u+v)^2 + 3v^2 = 0 mod p. Since -3 is not a quadratic residue mod p ( remember that p =2 mod 3) , we must have v=0=u.(II)

To follow the hint, gcd(p,3) =1. For k=3, {x^3 +17} (0<=x< p) is a complete residue system (mod p).Hence, it contains exactly (p+1)/2 quadratic residues.This,in view of (I) & (II) gives (p+1)-1 =p solutions.
 
Eynstone said:
I almost funked at this at the first sight :-p . The problem doesn't require any algebraic number theory as I thought.
First, note that p is not 3 . Also, if (x',y') is a solution, so is (x',-y'). Thus, the solutions occur in pairs unless when y'=0 . (I)
If y*^2 = u^3 + 17 = v^3 + 17 with u,v distinct mod p, we must have
u^2+uv+v^2 =0 (mod p). Thus, (2u+v)^2 + 3v^2 = 0 mod p. Since -3 is not a quadratic residue mod p ( remember that p =2 mod 3) , we must have v=0=u.(II)

To follow the hint, gcd(p,3) =1. For k=3, {x^3 +17} (0<=x< p) is a complete residue system (mod p).Hence, it contains exactly (p+1)/2 quadratic residues.This,in view of (I) & (II) gives (p+1)-1 =p solutions.

In the last paragraph, do you mean gcd(p,3)=1 or gcd(p-1,3) =1??
Also, The hint says it's a REDUCED residue system mod p, how did you get that {x3 +17: x=0,1,2,...,p-1} a COMPLETE residue system?

Also, why does this prove that Np=p? I don't understand what you're trying to do in (II). Can you explain a little more, please?

Thanks for your help! :)
 
Last edited:
Soryy for the slip - I meant gcd(p-1,3) =1 in the last paragraph.
The hint says that the kth powers of 1,2,...,p-1 form a reduced residue system mod p. Add 0^k =0 to get a complete residue system. Adding a constant (=17)
doesn't change the the complete nature of the system.
Therefore, we get (p+1)/2 distinct quadratic residues out of this (one of them being zero); say congruent to 0, y1^2,... ,yn^2 ( n=(p-1)/2 ) with corresponding values of x equal to x0,x1,.. ,xn.
Listing the solutions ,
(x0,0) , (x1,+-y1), (x2,+-y2)... = 1 + 2n =p.
 
Assuming that [tex]1^3, 2^3, ..., (p-1)^3[/tex] form a reduced residue system mod p, does this always imply that [tex]0^3, 1^3, 2^3, ..., (p-1)^3[/tex] will form a complete residue system mod p? Why?


If y*^2 = u^3 + 17 = v^3 + 17 with u,v distinct mod p, we must have
u^2+uv+v^2 =0 (mod p). Thus, (2u+v)^2 + 3v^2 = 0 mod p. Since -3 is not a quadratic residue mod p ( remember that p =2 mod 3) , we must have v=0=u.(II)
Also, I don't lost in this part. Why do we need to prove this? How did you get that u^2+uv+v^2 =0 (mod p)?

Thank you!
 
kingwinner said:
Assuming that [tex]1^3, 2^3, ..., (p-1)^3[/tex] form a reduced residue system mod p, does this always imply that [tex]0^3, 1^3, 2^3, ..., (p-1)^3[/tex] will form a complete residue system mod p? Why?
Yes, 0 is the only number missing.
kingwinner said:
Also, I don't lost in this part. Why do we need to prove this? How did you get that u^2+uv+v^2 =0 (mod p)?
I thought it safe to show that distinct values of xi can't correspond to the same quadratic residue. If they did, u^3+17 = v^3 +17 mod p . As p can't divide u-v &
u^3 -v^3 = (u-v)(u^2+uv+v^2 ) , we must have u^2+uv+v^2 =0 mod p.
 

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