Energy is borrowed from the vacuum /Virtual Particles

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of virtual particles and their relationship to the Heisenberg uncertainty principle within the framework of quantum field theory. Participants explore whether the notion of "borrowing energy from the vacuum" has theoretical or mathematical support in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the theoretical backing for the idea that virtual particles "borrow energy from the vacuum," noting that this concept is often derived from the Heisenberg uncertainty principle but lacks clear emergence from quantum field theory.
  • Another participant argues that the "borrowing" concept is primarily a pop science interpretation, suggesting that virtual particles are merely mathematical artifacts of perturbation theory and that the energy-time uncertainty relation is not as fundamental as other uncertainties.
  • A different participant asserts that one cannot borrow energy from a vacuum, implying that if energy can be borrowed, then it contradicts the definition of a vacuum.
  • Another participant defines virtual particles as internal lines in Feynman diagrams, emphasizing that energy-momentum conservation applies at every vertex and that virtual particles do not actually borrow energy but instead violate the usual energy-momentum relationship.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the "borrowing" concept, with some rejecting it as a misinterpretation while others seek to clarify its implications within quantum field theory. No consensus is reached regarding the theoretical grounding of virtual particles and their relationship to the vacuum.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the distinction between energy-time uncertainty and other forms of uncertainty, as well as the specific definitions and roles of virtual particles in Feynman diagrams, which may influence their interpretations of the vacuum concept.

Polyrhythmic
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"Energy is borrowed from the vacuum"/Virtual Particles

I know that there are countless threads on virtual particles (some of which I have participated in), but I don't think that this issue has been adressed yet.

One common handwaving argument for the existence of virtual particles is the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. It is said that virtual particles exist shortly enough so that the uncertainty principle applies and let's them "borrow energy from the vacuum".
My question is now: Does this argument have any actual theoretical/mathematical backing within the framework of quantum field theory? Because I don't see how this emerges as a consequence of anything in the theory. Virtual particles emerge as internal lines of Feynman diagrams, it is not clear to me how the uncertainty principle could be related to them.
Let's for now ignore the fact that energy/time uncertainty is a little different from other uncertainties (time does not have a corresponding hermitian operator). Don't let this grow into a "real vs not" discussion, please simply address my specific question.
 
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I think the whole "borrowing" picture exists entirely in pop science stuff since, as you pointed out, virtual particles are just a mathematical artifact of perturbation theory and the energy-time uncertainty relation isn't really as fundamental as the x,p one.
 


Polyrhythmic said:
I know that there are countless threads on virtual particles (some of which I have participated in), but I don't think that this issue has been adressed yet.

One common handwaving argument for the existence of virtual particles is the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. It is said that virtual particles exist shortly enough so that the uncertainty principle applies and let's them "borrow energy from the vacuum".
My question is now: Does this argument have any actual theoretical/mathematical backing within the framework of quantum field theory? Because I don't see how this emerges as a consequence of anything in the theory. Virtual particles emerge as internal lines of Feynman diagrams, it is not clear to me how the uncertainty principle could be related to them.
Let's for now ignore the fact that energy/time uncertainty is a little different from other uncertainties (time does not have a corresponding hermitian operator). Don't let this grow into a "real vs not" discussion, please simply address my specific question.


you cannot borrow energy from a vacuum
if you can, then its not a vacuum...;)
 


you cannot borrow energy from a vacuum
if you can, then its not a vacuum...;)

Quantum Electrodynamic (QED) Vacuum :)
 


Let's define 'virtual particle' as internal lines in a Feynman diagram, i.e. lines with two ends at two vertices.

In a Feynman diagram energy-momentum (and everything else like angular momentum, charge etc.) is conserved at every vertex; for virtual particles this means that they don't 'borrow energy from the vacuum'; all what they do is to violate the usual constraint p² - m² = 0 where p is the energe-momentum four vector.

So for a virtual photon energy-momentum conservation holds, but it represents something (attention: it's not a Fock-state!) with m² ≠ 0.
 

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