Energy Locally Never Negative: Explained

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of "energy is locally never negative" within the framework of general relativity. Participants explore its implications, particularly in relation to energy conditions, singularity theorems, and the beginnings of the universe, while addressing the mathematical and conceptual challenges involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that in general relativity, physics must locally resemble special relativity, where negative energy is not present.
  • Others note that quantum field theory allows for local negative energy, citing examples like the Casimir effect and Hawking radiation, which complicate the assertion of universally positive energy.
  • A participant introduces the weak energy condition, represented mathematically by the stress-energy tensor and the 4-velocity of an observer, indicating that it implies energy is non-negative for any observer.
  • Another participant mentions the strong energy condition and raises a question about its implications for the Big Bang theory, seeking clarification on how it relates to Einstein's field equations.
  • One participant references the singularity theorems developed by Hawking and Penrose, suggesting that energy conditions are integral to understanding the convergence of particle worldlines and the existence of singularities.
  • Another participant provides a resource for understanding the singularity theorems in a more accessible manner, emphasizing that qualitative insights can be gained without deep mathematical knowledge.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying degrees of understanding and interpretation of the energy conditions and their implications. There is no consensus on the implications of these conditions for the Big Bang or the singularity theorems, and multiple competing views remain regarding the nature of energy in different contexts.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of the mathematical frameworks involved, including the weak and strong energy conditions, and the singularity theorems, which may not be fully accessible to those without advanced mathematical training.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals exploring general relativity, energy conditions, and cosmological theories, particularly those seeking to understand the foundational concepts without extensive mathematical background.

Cosmology2015
Messages
31
Reaction score
1
Hello to all members!
I heard on a documentary about general relativity and singularities that "energy is locally never negative". However, I was not able to get grasp the meaning of this term. Could someone explain to me the meaning of this term in the framework of general relativity. I really appreciate any response :smile:.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
It is hard to be sure without the full context, but my guess would be that in general relativity physics must be locally identical to special relativity. In classical special relativity there is no negative energy.

A caveat is that quantum field theory (a nonclassical special relativistic theory) allows local negative energy (e.g. the Casimir effect); and Hawking radiation can be interpreted as requiring the existence of negative energy. Thus, non-classically such a blanket statement is dubious. Nonetheless, many physicists believe that at macroscopic scales, such effects will be bounded so as to prevent a-causal effects (in general relativity, the existence negative energy on large scales would allow several types of time machine to be built).
 
Last edited:
Adding to what PAllen wrote, this is known as the weak energy condition. If ##T## is the stress energy tensor, and ##u## is the 4-velocity of of an arbitrary observer (i.e., is timelike and future-directed), the weak energy condition is expressed mathematically as

$$T_{\mu\nu} u^\mu u^\nu \ge 0.$$
 
Last edited:
Hello to all members!
First, I would like to thank George Jones and PAllen for the quick response! With the answer that I was offered, although I do not have the mathematical training to study this subject at the moment, I could find out more about the subject. Wald's classic book on general relativity provides a continuation of the response known as the strong energy condition:

<br /> T_{ab}u^{\mu }u^{\nu }\geq -\frac{1}{2}T<br />
At this point, another question arises for me. Why this condition combined with Einstein's field equations leads us to the fact that the universe had a beginning (Big Bang)? Again, I really appreciate any response :smile:.
 
Cosmology2015 said:
<br /> T_{ab}u^{\mu }u^{\nu }\geq -\frac{1}{2}T<br />
At this point, another question arises for me. Why this condition combined with Einstein's field equations leads us to the fact that the universe had a beginning (Big Bang)? Again, I really appreciate any response :smile:.
That is complex theorem requiring sophisticated math - it was the pinnacle of Hawking and Penrose work circa 1970. It is possible someone can describe the thought process of the theorem at a more elementary level, but I can't (especially as I've never worked through the theorem's proof at all). I believe this proof is presented in "The Large Scale Structure of Spacetime", by Hawking and Ellis.
 
I'm no expert but a sketch of the arguments leading to the singularity theorems is given in chapter one of Hawking and Penrose's book 'The nature of space and time', which is the content of a series of lectures they gave together with a relatively easy going style (lots of easier sketches of much harder arguments). Steven Hawking's lectures from the book can be found here: https://arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/9409195.

According to this book (around page 8 of the arxiv article above), intuitively the energy conditions come into the singularity theorems to show that particle worldlines leaving a point can meet again, and from here show that "there can be particles whose history has a beginning or end at a finite time". There is an equation telling you how much nearby worldlines come together or move apart (called the Raychauduri-Newman-Penrose equation in the book), and the energy conditions let you show that a term in this equation is always positive (that is making the worldlines converge as opposed to diverge).
 
Last edited:
Hello to all members!
First of all, again, I would like to thank all the answers. These answers are very important to me as this is a matter that although I do not have the proper mathematical training, I have a strong desire to learn. I intend to study hard all references to try to understand what is currently possible considering my mathematical training. The explanation provided by Marmoset seems to be the ideal starting point. I hope to succeed in understanding this topic. If anyone has more references, please write on this thread. Again, I really appreciate any response :smile:.
 
Cosmology2015 said:
Hello to all members!
First of all, again, I would like to thank all the answers. These answers are very important to me as this is a matter that although I do not have the proper mathematical training, I have a strong desire to learn. I intend to study hard all references to try to understand what is currently possible considering my mathematical training. The explanation provided by Marmoset seems to be the ideal starting point. I hope to succeed in understanding this topic. If anyone has more references, please write on this thread. Again, I really appreciate any response :smile:.
I glanced at Marmoset's link, and it is great. I doubt you could find any more accessible treatment leading up to the singularity theorems. You should be able to get a qualitative sense of the arguments without following the math. Good luck!
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
4K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 71 ·
3
Replies
71
Views
6K
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
1K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
1K