Ensuring injectivity of an operator

  • Thread starter Thread starter radou
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Operator
Click For Summary
The discussion revolves around ensuring the injectivity of a linear operator A defined by a bilinear form a(.,.). A condition for injectivity is presented as α||v||^2 ≤ a(v, v), leading to the conclusion that if Av = 0, then v must equal 0. There is confusion regarding how the bilinear form a(.,.) uniquely defines the operator A, with participants questioning the clarity of the definitions and the uniqueness of the operator. The conversation highlights the need for explicit conditions and definitions when discussing the relationship between bilinear forms and linear operators. Overall, the participants seek a clearer understanding of the mathematical concepts involved.
radou
Homework Helper
Messages
3,148
Reaction score
8
The following puzzles me, and help is highly appreciated, as always:

I am to ensure the injectivity of a linear operator A, which is the unique operator defined by the bilinear form a(. , .). So, the book says that a simple and natural condition which guarantees the desired is: \alpha ||v||^2 \leq a(v, v), for all v, and, after a few steps, it follows that \alpha ||v|| \leq ||Av|| (for all v), and the book now says that injectivity follows easily from this inequality, but I can't see how.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You realize that the inequality

\alpha||v||^2 < a(v,v)

has absoultely no relation to A as stated right? How are you using a(-,-) to define A?

Anyway, that is completely immaterial. If Av=0, then you can reach an obvious conclusion that v=0.
 
matt grime said:
You realize that the inequality

\alpha||v||^2 < a(v,v)

has absoultely no relation to A as stated right? How are you using a(-,-) to define A?

Well, the book says that the a(-,-) defines a unique linear operator A with <Au, v> = a(u, v), for all u, v.

matt grime said:
Anyway, that is completely immaterial. If Av=0, then you can reach an obvious conclusion that v=0.

It is tragic how one can oversee such trivial things. Thanks.
 
radou said:
Well, the book says that the a(-,-) defines a unique linear operator A with <Au, v> = a(u, v), for all u, v.

The book might say that, but you didn't.
 
matt grime said:
The book might say that, but you didn't.

I didn't because I thought this was the only way to define this unique linear operator, which is, apparently, not correct, since you asked. I was told there is a theorem about this, but I wasn't able to find it. I'd appreciate some enlightment related to this matter, i.e. how exactly does a bilinear form a(-,-) : V x V --> F define a unique linear operator A : V --> V' , where V' is the dual space to V?

The definition above ( <Au, v> = a(u, v), for all u,v) means that A is the linear operator which maps every vector u to the functional F from V' such that, for this very u, F(v) = a(u, v), for all v.

Is there another way to look at this?
 
The point is that you didn't say what the linaer operator A had to do with a(-,-) at all! An inner product (x,x) is exactly the same as specifying a matrix so that that (x,x)=x^tAx, but you didn't say anything about that at all.
 
Actually, he did say that A was "the unique operator defined by the bilinear form a(. , .)." :wink:
 
And that means what, precisely? Nothing. Only if we are to _presume_ information not specified does that mean anything at all. Saying 'a(-,-) specifies a unique linear operator' is completely untrue, if that is all the information supplied. However, as I pointed out that is immaterial.
 
matt, perhaps I misunderstood what I was said (I'll ask the person once again) about the "bilinear form vs. unique linear operator" issue. Perhaps, if we define that operator as above, i.e. <Au, v> = a(u, v), for all u, v, then this operator A is unique and can be identified with the bilinear form a(-,-)?

I realize this is completely immaterial now (since my primary question was already answered), but I'm still interested in demistifying this.
 
  • #10
The point was you didn't say what conditions A had to satisfy! Look at what you wrote:

"a linear operator A, which is the unique operator defined by the bilinear form a(. , .)"

in post 1 (Notice you talk of 'a linear operator', by the way, then say it is unique...) and

"a(-,-) defines a unique linear operator A with <Au, v> = a(u, v), for all u, v."Call me dumb, but having to read between the lines to guess what you meant to write is a bit tricky sometimes - it is better to be safe than sorry, so include *how* a(-,-) defines a linear operator rather than presuming that we will guess.

Bear in mind that I could choose to use a(-,-) to define A satisfying a(x,y)=<Ax,y> or I could use it to define B to satisfy a(x,y)=<x,By>, where B is of course A transpose, so no, the linear operator is not unique anyway.
 
Last edited:
  • #11
First of all, it was due to my lack of knowledge that I confused you, since *I thought* that there was some unique linear operator to be associated with any bilinear form, which is obviously absurd. That's why I didn't, at first, point out how it was defined.

Second, there seems to be a notational misunderstanding here, and I definitely should have pointed out earlier that by <Ax, y> I mean Ax(y), where A is an operator A : V --> V', where V' is dual to V, so Ax is a functional. I have come across this notation in my book, probably invoked due to practical reasons.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
989
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
4K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
2K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 40 ·
2
Replies
40
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K