Entropy of the last scattering surface and today's universe?

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the concept of entropy in relation to the last scattering surface and the current state of the universe. Participants clarify that while the universe today is cooler and less dense than the plasma phase at 3000K, entropy has indeed increased due to the formation of gravitationally-bound systems like stars and planets. These systems possess higher entropy compared to the diffuse gas clouds from which they originated. The conversation references John Baez’s insights, emphasizing that the evolution of matter configurations and outgoing radiation must be considered when discussing entropy changes.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of entropy in thermodynamics
  • Familiarity with the last scattering surface concept
  • Knowledge of gravitationally-bound systems in astrophysics
  • Basic principles of adiabatic processes
NEXT STEPS
  • Read John Baez’s discussion on entropy and gravitational systems
  • Explore the relationship between entropy and black holes
  • Investigate the adiabatic processes in cosmic evolution
  • Study the implications of the cosmic microwave background on entropy
USEFUL FOR

Astronomers, physicists, and students of cosmology interested in the evolution of entropy in the universe and the dynamics of gravitationally-bound systems.

Astrotek
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Hi,
I am quite confused about followed question,
I think scientist think the last scattering surface was dense plasma at the temperature of 3000K. If the today's universe much cooler and less dense then "the last scattering surface" how can anyone says entropy increased by time? Isn't universe now have more order than a plasma phase?

Note: I am sorry If I couldn't make good sentences to explain my problem, it is almost 2 am and I just woken up and this question just bugs me a lot. I'll really appreciate if someone explains it.
 
Space news on Phys.org
The universe is much bigger now than it was at the time of last scattering.
 
Astrotek said:
Hi,
I am quite confused about followed question,
I think scientist think the last scattering surface was dense plasma at the temperature of 3000K. If the today's universe much cooler and less dense then "the last scattering surface" how can anyone says entropy increased by time? Isn't universe now have more order than a plasma phase?
In what way do you think the universe now has more "order"?

If you are talking about gravitationally-bound systems such as planets and stars, then those systems have higher entropy than the diffuse gas clouds they collapsed from. While the precise details of how much entropy complicated systems have is unknown, we do know that the end point of matter contained within a black hole is the maximum-entropy configuration that amount of matter can have.

If you just mean the cooling of the plasma into a gas, that process is largely adiabatic (as in, entropy didn't change much).
 
kimbyd said:
If you are talking about gravitationally-bound systems such as planets and stars, then those systems have higher entropy than the diffuse gas clouds they collapsed from.
This is actually not true. However, the point is that the evolution from a gas cloud to a gravitationally bound system is not an isolated one.

John Baez’s discussion on this is well worth a read.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Astrotek
Orodruin said:
John Baez’s discussion on this is well worth a read.

Well I got one more question now, but it was fun to read.

I am still thinking about other answers and I'd like to hear if there is any other thoughts on this subject.
 
Orodruin said:
This is actually not true. However, the point is that the evolution from a gas cloud to a gravitationally bound system is not an isolated one.

John Baez’s discussion on this is well worth a read.
That's fair. It does make sense that you'd have to not only consider the configuration of the matter, but also of the outgoing radiation, which represents a large loss of heat for the system. That does bring things into clearer focus. Certainly the entropy of the observable universe is not decreased by this process regardless.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Astrotek

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K