Epsilon Delta Proof Piecewise function

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the epsilon-delta proof for a piecewise function, specifically examining the Heaviside function and the application of the triangle inequality in the context of limits. Participants explore the derivation of certain inequalities and the implications of their results.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the correctness of a specific expression involving absolute values in the context of the proof, suggesting an alternative formulation.
  • There is a discussion about the application of the triangle inequality, with participants clarifying how it can be used in the context of rewriting expressions.
  • One participant proposes a method to show that the Heaviside function does not exist at \( t=0 \), using a contradiction derived from the epsilon-delta definition of limits.
  • Another participant mentions a different formula for the absolute value difference, leading to a discussion about the necessity of certain inequalities in proofs.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of negative values in absolute value inequalities, indicating a nuanced understanding of the mathematical principles involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally express differing views on the application and interpretation of the triangle inequality and the absolute value expressions. There is no consensus on the correctness of certain formulations or the necessity of specific inequalities.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various formulations of the triangle inequality and absolute value properties, indicating potential limitations in their understanding or application of these concepts. Some assumptions about the definitions and properties of limits and functions remain unresolved.

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https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130915100124AAK4JAQ

I do not understand how they got:
"1 = |(1 plus d/2 - L) - (d/2 - L)| <= |1 plus d/2 - L| plus |d/2 - L| < 1/4 plus 1/4 = 1/2, "

Shouldn't it be $|(1+ \frac{\delta}{2} -L) + (\frac{\delta}{2} -L)|$, not $|(1+ \frac{\delta}{2} -L) - (\frac{\delta}{2} -L)|$
 
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Rido12 said:
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130915100124AAK4JAQ

I do not understand how they got:
"1 = |(1 plus d/2 - L) - (d/2 - L)| <= |1 plus d/2 - L| plus |d/2 - L| < 1/4 plus 1/4 = 1/2, "

Shouldn't it be $|(1+ \frac{\delta}{2} -L) + (\frac{\delta}{2} -L)|$, not $|(1+ \frac{\delta}{2} -L) - (\frac{\delta}{2} -L)|$

No, $|(1 + \frac{\delta}{2} - L) + (\frac{\delta}{2} - L)| = |1 + \delta - 2L|$, not $1$. Adding and subtracting $\frac{d}{2} - L$ gives

$$1 = 1 + (\frac{\delta}{2} - L) - (\frac{\delta}{2} - L) = (1 + \frac{\delta}{2} - L) - (\frac{\delta}{2} - L)$$,

and thus

$$ 1 = |(1 + \frac{\delta}{2} - L) - (\frac{\delta}{2} - L)|$$.
 
I agree, but how was he able to continue with the triangle inequality?

I thought it was $|x+y| \le |x| + |y|$, so if they rewrote it as $|x-y|$, how is $|x-y|\le |x|+|y|$?
 
They're trying to derive a contradiction. I presume you have followed the steps they took in order to deduce $\left | \delta/2 + 1 - L \right | < 4$ from the hypothesis of having a limit?

What they did next was sheer trickery. Note that $(1 + \delta/2 - L) - (\delta/2 - L) = 1$, thus,

$$1 = \left | \left(1 + \frac{\delta}{2}-L \right) - \left ( \frac{\delta}{2} - L \right) \right | \leq \left | 1 + \frac{\delta}{2} - L \right | +\left | \frac{\delta}{2} - L \right |$$

Which follows from the triangle ineq. But then we have deduced that

$$\left | 1 + \frac{\delta}{2} - L \right | +\left | \frac{\delta}{2} - L \right | \leq \frac14 + \left | 1 + \frac{\delta}{2} - L \right | < \frac14 + \frac14 = \frac12$$

Combining the two above, $1 < 1/2$, a contradiction.

- - - Updated - - -

Rido12 said:
I agree, but how was he able to continue with the triangle inequality?

I thought it was $|x+y| \le |x| + |y|$, so if they rewrote it as $|x-y|$, how is $|x-y|\le |x|+|y|$?
$$|x-y| = |x + (-y)| \leq |x| + |-y| = |x| + |y|$$
 
Oh okay! It's just that my professor has another formula for $|x-y|$ that is different, but it matters not.

Suppose we want to show that the Heaviside function does not exist at $t=0$.

Heaviside function is the following:
$$H(t)=\begin{cases}1, & t\ge 0 \\[3pt] 0, & t<0 \\ \end{cases}$$

Following the same method, assume that $\epsilon = 1/2$ is imposed, such that we want to find $0<|t|<\delta$ such that $|H(t) -L|<1/2$. If we pick $t =\delta /2$ which satisfies, we have $|1-L|<1/2$, similarly picking $t=-\delta / 2$, we have $|-L|<1/2$.

By the triangle inequality, we find that:
$1=|1-L-(-L)|\le |1-L|+|L| < 1/2 + 1/2 = 1$

Contradiction because 1 is not less than 1. Is that correct? Do I have to say anything about $\delta$ = min{${\text{something}}$}?
 
Last edited:
That looks good to me. (Yes)
 
Rido12 said:
Oh okay! It's just that my professor has another formula for $|x-y|$ that is different, but it matters not.

You mean the reverse triangle inequality, $||x| - |y|| \le |x - y|$?
 
Exactly, but are those external absolute values necesary? My prof left it out, he said for any real numbers $x$ and $y$:
$|x-y|\ge |x|-|y|$
 
What I have implies your inequality, but keep in mind that $|x| - |y|$ may be negative.
 

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