Equivalency: particle with energy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the equivalence of mass and energy as described by the theory of relativity, specifically focusing on whether a particle's mass changes with its energy state. Participants explore implications of this equivalence, including its relationship to gravity and potential technological applications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that a particle in a higher energy state is indeed more massive than the same particle in a lower energy state, referencing the principle E=mc².
  • One participant uses the analogy of a spinning flywheel being "heavier" to push than a non-spinning one to illustrate this point.
  • There is a suggestion that if a body absorbs radiation, it becomes more massive, whether through heating or by having electrons in more energetic states.
  • A question is raised regarding the gravitational implications of this mass-energy equivalence, specifically whether the force between a higher-energy particle and the Earth is greater than that between the same particle in a lower energy state.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of the equivalence principle from general relativity, suggesting that the discussion may be conflating inertial mass with gravitational mass.
  • There is speculation about the possibility of creating a mass generator that could exploit the relationship between mass and energy in various ways.
  • One participant expresses curiosity about the potential for future technology to create matter from electricity, indicating a desire to understand the practical implications of these concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the relationship between energy and mass but express differing views on the implications for gravity and technology. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the gravitational effects and the feasibility of creating matter from energy.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully clarified the distinctions between inertial and gravitational mass, nor have they resolved the implications of energy states on gravitational interactions. The discussion includes assumptions about the applicability of special and general relativity without definitive conclusions.

Pythagorean
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from wiki:
According to the theory of relativity, mass and energy as commonly understood are two names for the same thing, and one is not changed to the other. Rather, neither one appears without the other. Thus, when energy changes type and leaves a system, it takes its mass with it.

E=mc^2

I'm still having trouble conceptualizing this equivalence. If the wiki article speaks true:

If a particle is in a higher energy state, it's actually more massive than the same particle in a lower energy state?
 
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Pythagorean said:
If a particle is in a higher energy state, it's actually more massive than the same particle in a lower energy state?

Yup! :biggrin:

A spinning flywheel is "heavier" to push than a non-spinning one.

If a body absorbs radiation by heating up, it is more massive.

Same if it absorbs radiation by having electrons in more energetic states. :wink:
 
tiny-tim said:
Yup! :biggrin:

A spinning flywheel is "heavier" to push than a non-spinning one.

If a body absorbs radiation by heating up, it is more massive.

Same if it absorbs radiation by having electrons in more energetic states. :wink:

That sounds like an inertial statement. What about gravity? Is the force between a higher-energy particle and the Earth greater than a force between the same particle (in a lower energy state) and the Earth?

So does this mean that somewhere down the line we will be able to construct a mass generator and exploit dm/dt in all kinds of different ways?
 
Pythagorean said:
from wiki:

E=mc^2

Pythagorean said:
That sounds like an inertial statement.

It is an inertial statement.
What about gravity? Is the force between a higher-energy particle and the Earth greater than a force between the same particle (in a lower energy state) and the Earth?

Now you're talking about the equivalence principle, of general relativity, and the equality of inertial mass and gravitational mass …

I suspect the wikipedia article (you didn't provide a link) is only talking about inertial mass and special relativity.
So does this mean that somewhere down the line we will be able to construct a mass generator and exploit dm/dt in all kinds of different ways?

Sorry, not following you. :redface:
 
ok, separating the two helps, thanks.

In terms of technology I was asking if it implied that we could theoretically create matter with electricity one day.
 

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