Equivalent definitions for the norm of a linear functional

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the equivalence of three definitions for the norm of a bounded linear functional. Participants explore theoretical aspects of functional analysis, particularly focusing on the operator norm and its properties. The conversation includes mathematical reasoning and proofs related to the definitions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the definitions of the norm are equivalent based on properties of linear functionals and supremum definitions.
  • One participant provides a proof showing that the supremum of the norm over different sets leads to the same value, using sequences and limits.
  • Another participant questions the definitions and suggests that there may be discrepancies in the understanding of the operator norm, referencing external sources.
  • Some participants argue that the equivalence follows from the linearity of the functional, suggesting that the ratios remain constant across different definitions.
  • A participant introduces a specific case involving a bounded linear operator on L^2[0,1] and expresses confusion about proving the norm's value.
  • Further discussion includes attempts to find sequences that demonstrate the properties of the operator norm, with some participants sharing their thought processes and challenges in doing so.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally engage in a debate over the equivalence of the definitions, with some agreeing on the proofs provided while others raise questions or express confusion about specific aspects. No consensus is reached on all points, particularly regarding the application of the definitions in specific cases.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note potential limitations in the definitions based on the context of their application, including assumptions about the sets involved and the behavior of sequences approaching supremum values.

AxiomOfChoice
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Can someone please explain why the following three definitions for the norm of a bounded linear functional are equivalent?

<br /> \| f \| = \sup_{0 &lt; \|x\| &lt; 1} \frac{|f(x)|}{\| x \|},<br />

and

<br /> \| f \| = \sup_{0 &lt; \| x \| \leq 1} \frac{|f(x)|}{\| x \|},<br />

and

<br /> \| f \| = \sup_{\| x \| = 1} \frac{|f(x)|}{\| x \|} = \sup_{\| x \| = 1} |f(x)|.<br />

(Thanks to micromass for reminding me about the last equality.) Every book I have just asserts their equivalence but provides no explanation. Thanks!
 
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It is evident that

\sup_{0&lt;\|x\|&lt;1}{\frac{|f(x)|}{\|x\|}}\leq \sup_{0&lt;\|x\|\leq 1}{\frac{|f(x)|}{\|x\|}}We will now prove:

\sup_{0&lt;\|x\|\leq 1}{\frac{|f(x)|}{\|x\|}}\leq \sup_{\|x\|=1}{|f(x)|}

Let's assume that (xn) is a sequence with 0&lt;\|x_n\|\leq 1, and such that

\frac{|f(x_n)|}{\|x_n\|}\rightarrow \sup_{0&lt;\|x\|\leq 1}{\frac{|f(x)|}{\|x\|}}

Now, we put y_n=x_n/\|x_n\|. Then \|y_n\|=1. Furthermore:

|f(y_n)|=\frac{|f(x_n)|}{\|x_n\|}\rightarrow \sup_{0&lt;\|x\|\leq 1}{\frac{|f(x)|}{\|x\|}}

This proves that the inequality must hold.

We will now prove

\sup_{\|x\|=1}{|f(x)|}\leq \sup_{0&lt;\|x\|&lt;1}{\frac{|f(x)|}{\|x\|}}

Assume that (xn) is a sequence such that \|x_n\|=1 and such that

|f(x_n)|\rightarrow \sup_{\|x\|=1}{|f(x)|}

Now, we put y_n=\frac{n-1}{n}x_n, then 0&lt;\|y_n\|&lt;1, and

\frac{|f(y_n)|}{\|y_n\|}=|f(x_n)|\rightarrow \sup_{\|x\|=1}{|f(x)|}

This proves that this inequality must also hold.
 
Either your book has a different definition of the operator norm, or there are some typos in the first post. The norm I'm familiar with can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operator_norm#Equivalent_definitions.

Let's call the norms

(1) \sup\{\|f(x)\| : \|x\| \leq 1 \}

(2) \sup\{\|f(x)\| : \|x\| = 1 \}

(3) \sup \left\{\frac{\|f(x)\|}{\|x\|} : x \neq 0\right\}

(1) is equivalent to (2) because a linear functional on will attain its maximum on the boundary of the set, i.e., when \|x\|=1.

(2) is equivalent to (3) because f is linear, so cf(x) = f(cx). Then if x is nonzero, we have

<br /> \frac{\|f(x)\|}{\|x\|} = \left\|f\left(\frac{x}{\|x\|}\right)\right\|<br />

and \frac{x}{\|x\|} has norm 1.
 
these all look trivially the same just from the definition of linear.

i.e. if x is any non zero vector and c is any non zero scalar then f(cx) = cf(x),

so |f(x)|/||x|| = (c/c)(|f(x)|/||x||) = |f(cx)|/||cx||.

Thus |f(x)|/||x|| is constant on lines through the origin.

This proves immediately that all limits in all posts above are the same, since the sets of

quotients are all the same.
 
micromass said:
It is evident that

\sup_{0&lt;\|x\|&lt;1}{\frac{|f(x)|}{\|x\|}}\leq \sup_{0&lt;\|x\|\leq 1}{\frac{|f(x)|}{\|x\|}}


We will now prove:

\sup_{0&lt;\|x\|\leq 1}{\frac{|f(x)|}{\|x\|}}\leq \sup_{\|x\|=1}{|f(x)|}

Let's assume that (xn) is a sequence with 0&lt;\|x_n\|\leq 1, and such that

\frac{|f(x_n)|}{\|x_n\|}\rightarrow \sup_{0&lt;\|x\|\leq 1}{\frac{|f(x)|}{\|x\|}}

Now, we put y_n=x_n/\|x_n\|. Then \|y_n\|=1. Furthermore:

|f(y_n)|=\frac{|f(x_n)|}{\|x_n\|}\rightarrow \sup_{0&lt;\|x\|\leq 1}{\frac{|f(x)|}{\|x\|}}

This proves that the inequality must hold.

We will now prove

\sup_{\|x\|=1}{|f(x)|}\leq \sup_{0&lt;\|x\|&lt;1}{\frac{|f(x)|}{\|x\|}}

Assume that (xn) is a sequence such that \|x_n\|=1 and such that

|f(x_n)|\rightarrow \sup_{\|x\|=1}{|f(x)|}

Now, we put y_n=\frac{n-1}{n}x_n, then 0&lt;\|y_n\|&lt;1, and

\frac{|f(y_n)|}{\|y_n\|}=|f(x_n)|\rightarrow \sup_{\|x\|=1}{|f(x)|}

This proves that this inequality must also hold.

Thanks; I like this proof a lot. And I think I understand the argument, provided I'm correct about this detail: "If A and B are sets, and there is a sequence of points in B that converge to \sup A, then we have \sup A \leq \sup B." That's correct, right? Since \alpha = \sup B only if there is a sequence of points in B converging to \alpha.
 
AxiomOfChoice said:
Thanks; I like this proof a lot. And I think I understand the argument, provided I'm correct about this detail: "If A and B are sets, and there is a sequence of points in B that converge to \sup A, then we have \sup A \leq \sup B." That's correct, right? Since \alpha = \sup B only if there is a sequence of points in B converging to \alpha.

Yes, that is basically the idea of what I was trying to do :biggrin:
 
if two sets if numbers are the same numbers , then their sups are also the same. done.
 
Incidentally, my professor claims that if we define (Tx)(t)= tx(t) (just multiplication by the independent variable) on L^2[0,1] (square-integrable functions on [0,1]), we have \| T \| = 1. I get why we have \| T \| \leq 1, but I don't see how we can get \| T \| \geq 1. Does anyone see this?
 
The trick to prove \|T\|\leq\text{something} is usually to find an upper bound of the set for which \|T\| is the least upper bound. The trick to prove \|T\|\geq\text{something} is usually to use that \|T\| is \geq every member of that set. So you should look for a specific member of that set that solves the problem. (I haven't actually done it for this problem).

By the way, my answer to the question in #1 is that if T:X\rightarrow Y is a bounded linear operator, and we define

\begin{align*}<br /> A &amp;=\bigg\{\frac{\|Tx\|}{\|x\|}\,\bigg|\, x\in X,\ x\neq 0\bigg\}\\<br /> B &amp;=\bigg\{\frac{\|Tx\|}{\|x\|}\,\bigg|\, x\in X,\ 0&lt;\|x\|\leq 1\bigg\}\\<br /> C &amp;=\Big\{\|Tx\|\,\Big|\, x\in X, \|x\|=1\Big\},<br /> \end{align*}

then A=B=C. So don't worry about the supremums. Just show that the sets are the same.

I realize that the question had already been answered (and that my answer is identical to mathwonk's), but I had this already LaTeXed in my personal notes.
 
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  • #10
Fredrik said:
The trick to prove \|T\|\leq\text{something} is usually to find an upper bound of the set for which \|T\| is the least upper bound. The trick to prove \|T\|\geq\text{something} is usually to use that \|T\| is \geq every member of that set. So you should look for a specific member of that set that solves the problem. (I haven't actually done it for this problem).

Right; that's what I'm trying to do (so far, without success).
 
  • #11
Fredrik said:
The trick to prove \|T\|\leq\text{something} is usually to find an upper bound of the set for which \|T\| is the least upper bound. The trick to prove \|T\|\geq\text{something} is usually to use that \|T\| is \geq every member of that set. So you should look for a specific member of that set that solves the problem. (I haven't actually done it for this problem).

By the way, my answer to the question in #1 is that if T:X\rightarrow Y is a bounded linear operator, and we define

\begin{align*}<br /> A &amp;=\bigg\{\frac{\|Tx\|}{\|x\|}\,\bigg|\, x\in X,\ x\neq 0\bigg\}\\<br /> B &amp;=\bigg\{\frac{\|Tx\|}{\|x\|}\,\bigg|\, x\in X,\ 0&lt;\|x\|\leq 1\bigg\}\\<br /> C &amp;=\Big\{\|Tx\|\,\Big|\, x\in X, \|x\|=1\Big\},<br /> \end{align*}

then A=B=C. So don't worry about the supremums. Just show that the sets are the same.

I realize that the question had already been answered, but I had this already LaTeXed in my personal notes.

Thanks :smile:
 
  • #12
Ok, I'm confused. If

<br /> \| T \| = \sup_{x\neq 0} \frac{\| Tx \|}{\| x \|},<br />

then to show we have \| T \| \geq 1, we need to show that there is a nonzero x such that the expression above is equal to 1. But this means

<br /> \| Tx \| = \sqrt{\int_0^1 t^2 |x(t)|^2 dt} = \sqrt{\int_0^1 |x(t)|^2 dt} = \| x \|,<br />

which implies

<br /> \int_0^1 |x(t)|^2 (t^2 - 1)dt = 0.<br />

But this can't be! On [0,1], (t^2 - 1) is negative, but |x(t)|^2 is positive! And there's no way the integral can be zero unless the product is positive in some places and negative in others! Am I wrong here?

My professor stated \| T \| = 1 without proof, so I can't imagine it's this hard...
 
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  • #13
...actually, now that I think about it, I guess it would be sufficient to come up with a sequence x_n(t) \in L^2[0,1] such that

<br /> \frac{\int_0^1 t^2 |x_n(t)|^2 dt}{\int_0^1 |x_n(t)|^2 dt} \to 1.<br />

Can anyone think of such a sequence? I can't really do it...:frown:
 
  • #14
Note that L^2[0,1] contains more than the continuous functions!

For every 0&lt;\epsilon&lt;1, let A_{\epsilon}:=\{t\in[0,1]\ |\ t\geq 1-\epsilon\}. It has finite Lebesgue measure \mu(A_\epsilon)=\epsilon. Then, for f=\chi_{A_\epsilon}\in L^2[0,1] the characteristic function of this set, we have

\|f\|^2=\int_{1-\epsilon}^1 dt=\epsilon;
\|Tf\|^2=\int_{1-\epsilon}^1 |t|^2dt\geq \epsilon (1-\epsilon)^2.

Hence

\|T\|=\sup_{g} \frac{\|Tg\|}{\|g}\geq \frac{\|Tf\|}{\|f}\geq 1-\epsilon.

But 0<epsilon<1 was arbitrary, so \|T\|=1.

This argument can be generalized to prove that the multiplication operator

T_{\phi}:L^2[0,1]\to L^2[0,1]
f\mapsto f\phi

has norm equal to the essential supremum of \phi. (Indeed, \phi(t)=t has (essential) supremum on [0,1] equal to 1.)
 
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  • #15
Landau said:
Note that L^2[0,1] contains more than the continuous functions!

For every 0&lt;\epsilon&lt;1, let A_{\epsilon}:=\{t\in[0,1]\ |\ t\geq 1-\epsilon\}. It has finite Lebesgue measure \mu(A_\epsilon)=\epsilon. Then, for f=\chi_{A_\epsilon}\in L^2[0,1] the characteristic function of this set, we have

\|f\|^2=\int_{1-\epsilon}^1 dt=\epsilon;
\|Tf\|^2=\int_{1-\epsilon}^1 |t|^2dt\geq \epsilon (1-\epsilon)^2.

Hence

\|T\|=\sup_{g} \frac{\|Tg\|}{\|g}\geq \frac{\|Tf\|}{\|f}\geq 1-\epsilon.

But 0<epsilon<1 was arbitrary, so \|T\|=1.

This argument can be generalized to prove that the multiplication operator

T_{\phi}:L^2[0,1]\to L^2[0,1]
f\mapsto f\phi

has norm equal to the essential supremum of \phi. (Indeed, \phi(t)=t has (essential) supremum on [0,1] equal to 1.)

You're right; this works. Thanks a lot Landau! I've also managed to think of the following example: If you look at x_n = \sqrt n \chi_{[1-1/n,1]}, I think this sequence has the property that \| Tx_n \| / \| x_n \| \to 1.
 
  • #16
Well, sure. It's basically what I just wrote, with epsilon=1/n, and a factor sqrt{n} (which seems unnecessary) in front of it.
 

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