Escape velocity of a body from a black hole.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the escape velocity of bodies from black holes, exploring whether it can be less than the speed of light (C) and the conditions under which a star can become a black hole. Participants also touch on the implications of black hole mass changes, event horizon dynamics, and the existence of non-stellar black holes.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the escape velocity from a black hole must be greater than C, as this is a defining characteristic of black holes.
  • There is a discussion about the mass of a star before it becomes a black hole, with some suggesting that it can lose mass during a supernova, while others argue that the mass remains but is concentrated in a singularity.
  • One participant mentions that a neutron star has an escape velocity close to C but is not a black hole, indicating a distinction between the two states.
  • Concerns are raised about the existence of non-stellar black holes, with some participants stating that they are not proven or found, and that current understanding relies on inference rather than direct observation.
  • Participants discuss the process of a star collapsing into a black hole, emphasizing the role of supernovae and the conditions required for such a transformation.
  • There is mention of black holes potentially ending in evaporation, with varying timescales for small versus massive black holes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the conditions under which black holes can form, particularly concerning non-stellar black holes and the necessity of mass loss during the transformation from star to black hole. The discussion remains unresolved on several points, including the implications of escape velocity and the existence of smaller black holes.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in current understanding, particularly regarding the formation of non-stellar black holes and the observational evidence for black holes of various masses. There is also mention of unresolved mathematical and theoretical aspects related to escape velocity and mass concentration in black holes.

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i read that the escape velocity from black hole is greater then C, my question is: is that true for all black holes, or we could have some black holes which have smaller escape velocity than C, there's the equation v=sqrt(2MG/R) which implies that M/R>c^2/2G, but does the star before it becomes a black hole cannot change its mass (i think that infact before it becomes a black hole, it shrinks into neutron star which is radius is much smaller. but does its mass stays as it was?).

p.s
1.when a black hole "consumes" (if this term is correct) mass from its surrondings, does it not expand? and if it does does its event horizon increase as well?
2. i heard that perhaps black holes' end in vaporization, how is this idea is being conveyed?
 
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It can't have escape velocity < c or it wouldn't be a black hole. Neutron stars have an escape velocity close to c, but they're not black holes.

The mass doesn't have to change. It just gets smaller which changes R in your equations. If you could compress the entire Moon into a sphere about 1 or 2 inches, it would become a black hole. As it is now, the closest you can get to the Moon is 1 Moon radii, or about 1600km. Using 1600km as R, the escape velocity for the Moon is in the low km/s. But if you could get 1 cm from the Moon, its escape velocity would exceed C.

When it "consumes" it becomes more massive, and that expands the event horizon. The singularity will not grow. It's called a singularity because its size is 0.

Black holes can end in evaporation. Small black holes are thought to evaporate very quickly, while massive ones would require timescales that exceed the life of the universe.
 
for a star to become a black hole it must loose mass
as a super nova is the only way I know of for that to happen
and a good bit of the star is blowen off in the process
there is no known way to colapes a moon or other non star

non star formed black holes are not proven and as yet unfound
 
Last edited:
ray b said:
for a star to become a black hole it must loose mass
Not exactally what happens is that it collapses into a very condsen region in space and the mass is left but it's all on a single point in space and that what causes it's gravity be so strong.
 
ray b said:
non star formed black holes are not proven and as yet unfound

On this note, we have never "seen" a stellar mass black hole, only inferred its existence. Just as we have inferred the existence of the supermassive black hole at the centre of the Milky Way.
 
yes BUT you need a super nova to power the star collapse
and that blows off a good part of the star as a result
if 2 to 3 solar masses are left only then do you get a black hole
so you cannot get a luner mass black hole
it just will not go beyond a neutron matter state

well we will never see a black hole
but have not even inferred a less then 2 to 3 solar mass one
nor do we have a real method to make one smaller then that
 

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