Estimate the standard reaction Gibbs energy of the following reaction:

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around estimating the standard reaction Gibbs energy for the reaction N2 + 3 H2 → 2 NH3 at temperatures of 100K and 1000K. Participants explore various methods and equations relevant to thermodynamic calculations, including the use of entropy and enthalpy changes.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant outlines their approach using the equation ΔS(T2) = S°(T1) + ∫ n Cp dT/T to calculate ΔS at different temperatures and expresses uncertainty about needing to convert enthalpy values from 273K to 100K.
  • Another participant suggests using H(T2) = H°(T1) + ∫ n Cp dT as an alternative method for calculating enthalpy changes.
  • A different participant reports their calculated ΔG at 100K as –68.6 kJ and notes a comparison with a value of –72.6 kJ obtained using the Gibbs-Helmholtz equation, indicating an understanding of the assumptions behind the equation.
  • One participant challenges the assumption that the Gibbs-Helmholtz equation implies isenthalpic conditions, suggesting that the temperature dependence of ΔH may have been neglected in the calculations.
  • Another participant proposes a method involving the derivative of ΔG with respect to temperature, stating it simplifies the problem by focusing on enthalpy changes without needing to account for entropy changes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriate methods for calculating Gibbs energy and the implications of the Gibbs-Helmholtz equation. There is no consensus on the best approach, and several competing methods are discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the need for specific data from tables and the potential impact of temperature on enthalpy values, indicating that assumptions about standard conditions may affect calculations.

Jormungandr
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Homework Statement



"Estimate the standard reaction Gibbs energy of the following reaction:

N2 + 3 H2 ‒‒> 2 NH3

at 100K and at 1000K."


Homework Equations



ΔS(T2) = S°(T1) + ∫ n Cp dT/T
ΔG = ΔH ‒ TΔS

Given data: http://imgur.com/MBakUEB (may need to right-click and select "Open in new tab")

The Attempt at a Solution



So, I realize that we likely have to use the formula ΔS(T2) = S°(T1) + ∫ n Cp dT/T in our calculations to find the ΔS at the different temperatures. What I did was I calculated the ΔS at 100K for NH3, H2, and N2 separately, then did ΔrG = ΔprodG ‒ ΔreacG. I had to obtain values for Cp, ΔfHm°, and ΔSm° from a table in the back of my textbook.
Here's my math:

ΔrH = 2 mol × ‒46.11 kJ/mol, because it is 0 for hydrogen and nitrogen.

http://imgur.com/TV8cfmB

Forgive the non-matching formatting. I found it was easier to go into Word and use its equation editor than to try and learn LaTEX, as time is somewhat of the essence here.

So is my work for the 100K case correct? I just realized that I may have needed to also convert my H value from the 273K to 100K, because the book gave standard enthalpies of reaction, and not that at 100K... Would I use the Kirchoff equation for that, then?

Thanks for the help!
 
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You could also use H(T2) = H°(T1) + ∫ n Cp dT.
 
DrDu said:
You could also use H(T2) = H°(T1) + ∫ n Cp dT.

That was the equation that I ended up using when I revised my answer. In the end, I got that at 100 K, ΔG = –68.6 kJ. Our professor also had us approximate the value using the Gibbs-Helmholtz equation, which gave me –72.6 kJ. It makes sense for the two values to be off, because I know the Gibbs-Helmholtz equation assumes that the process is isenthalpic.
 
Jormungandr said:
T It makes sense for the two values to be off, because I know the Gibbs-Helmholtz equation assumes that the process is isenthalpic.
No, if it were isenthalpic, Delta G won't depend on T at all. It is rather that you probably neglected the T dependence of Delta H in solving the Gibbs-Helmholtz equation. From your calculations you see that this is usually a good approximation.
 
The easiest way to do this problem is to use the equation:

\frac{d(ΔG^0/RT)}{dT}=-\frac{ΔH^0}{RT^2}

This way, you don't have to mess with the entropy changes with temperature, and only need to take into account the changes in enthalpies with temperature.

Chet
 

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