Eventual decay of all matter - question from an amateur

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the eventual decay of matter in the universe, exploring theoretical concepts related to proton decay, time dilation, and the fate of biological life. Participants examine the implications of relativistic travel on decay processes and the potential for matter creation using black holes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the decay of matter, questioning whether all matter will eventually 'fall apart' into subatomic particles or iron.
  • Another participant suggests that while time dilation could theoretically postpone decay, practical limitations exist, such as the impossibility of constant acceleration in a decaying universe.
  • There is a proposal that using black holes to create matter could be a potential solution, although the feasibility of this idea is questioned.
  • Participants discuss the timeline for matter decay, with estimates ranging from more than 10^34 years to a much longer period for certain processes, such as quantum tunneling effects leading to the collapse of iron stars.
  • One participant seeks clarification on whether the estimated time for decay applies to all matter or just to stars, raising the hypothetical scenario of a rock placed in a safe location.
  • Another participant notes that the timeline for black hole decay through Hawking Radiation seems longer than the lifetimes of nucleons, suggesting a discrepancy in the decay processes discussed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the timelines and processes of matter decay, with no consensus reached on the specifics of how long matter can last or the implications of relativistic travel on decay. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the applicability of decay timelines to different forms of matter.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in their understanding of the decay processes and the assumptions underlying their hypotheses, particularly regarding the practicalities of using black holes and the specifics of matter decay timelines.

Jota
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I suppose I should start out by confessing that I'm hopelessly ingorant on the subject of physics, so please, be gentle. :)

My question is about the eventual decay of matter into...well, random subatomic particles, or iron...I can't recall what the theorie/s state precisely. But apparently, at some point in the far distant future, all of the matter in the universe will, in laymen's terms, 'fall apart'. Right?

If, hypothetically, there were a group of people in a spaceship traveling at relativistic speeds while the rest of the universe was 'ending', would they be able to postpone their own 'decay' (though obviously they could not competely prevent it) via time dilation?

Also, how long does the universe have until matter-decay renders any biological life assunder?
 
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Jota said:
I suppose I should start out by confessing that I'm hopelessly ingorant on the subject of physics, so please, be gentle. :)

My question is about the eventual decay of matter into...well, random subatomic particles, or iron...I can't recall what the theorie/s state precisely. But apparently, at some point in the far distant future, all of the matter in the universe will, in laymen's terms, 'fall apart'. Right?
Yes, basically. This Wikipedia article does a good job of explaining it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_an_expanding_universe

Jota said:
If, hypothetically, there were a group of people in a spaceship traveling at relativistic speeds while the rest of the universe was 'ending', would they be able to postpone their own 'decay' (though obviously they could not competely prevent it) via time dilation?
Well, since the time span for the decay of protons is more than [itex]10^{34}[/itex] years, the people on the ship would die long before it decayed, no matter how fast they go.

However, ostensibly, yes, this would be one way to survive nucleon decay. As a thought experiment this is accurate, but practically I'm pretty sure it's impossible (basically, it would require constant acceleration, which wouldn't be possible if there's no matter out there to act as fuel). Not very useful, though, as you still have the exact same amount of time remaining before your protons all decay from your perspective, as your time frame is the same as the time frame of the protons that make up your body.

I suspect that the only way around this would be to use the energy of black holes to create matter (use a collider to generate protons/anti-protons, and fire the anti-protons into the black hole).

Jota said:
Also, how long does the universe have until matter-decay renders any biological life assunder?
Well, except possibly with the aid of much more advanced technology than our own, biological life will have died long before then.
 
Thanks! I appreciate your reply; I just have two more amateur-ish questions:

I suspect that the only way around this would be to use the energy of black holes to create matter (use a collider to generate protons/anti-protons, and fire the anti-protons into the black hole).
Well, although I'm quite the grown-up, with the excessive joint-popping arthritis to prove it... could you give a basic rundown of how that would work, and explain it as if you were talking to an 8th grader. :)

Also, approximately how much time does the universe have until all of what we we'd think of as "normal" matter [such as rocks, gold, diamonds and mcdonald's french fries] would, even if preserved in some otherwise safely located time capsule, be destroyed, or at least unrecognizable due to matter decay?
 
Jota said:
Well, although I'm quite the grown-up, with the excessive joint-popping arthritis to prove it... could you give a basic rundown of how that would work, and explain it as if you were talking to an 8th grader. :)
Well, you can extract energy from a spinning black hole. Basically, if it's rotating, stuff that you throw into it gets expelled as a particle stream out of the poles of the black hole, at an energy nearly equal to the mass-energy of the matter that falls in. This energy comes from the rotation of the black hole, so it doesn't last forever. But if you can harness the energy being shot out of the poles of the black hole, you might be able to build a civilization around one.

Now that I think of it, though, I don't think this would help you with proton decay. Less matter comes out of the poles than goes in, so you'd have to have a ready supply of matter on hand.

Jota said:
Also, approximately how much time does the universe have until all of what we we'd think of as "normal" matter [such as rocks, gold, diamonds and mcdonald's french fries] would, even if preserved in some otherwise safely located time capsule, be destroyed, or at least unrecognizable due to matter decay?
Well, we don't know exactly. More than [itex]10^34[/itex] years. How much more, we're not sure.
 
In approximately [tex]10^{10}^{26}[/tex] - [tex]10^{10}^{76}[/tex] years from now, quantum tunneling effects will cause iron stars to collapse into neutron stars or black holes. The black holes then decay through Hawking Radiation.
 
Kevin_Axion said:
In approximately [tex]10^{10}^{26}[/tex] - [tex]10^{10}^{76}[/tex] years from now, quantum tunneling effects will cause iron stars to collapse into neutron stars or black holes. The black holes then decay through Hawking Radiation.
But, does that amount of time apply only to the stars, OR, is that the amount of time it would take any given matter to decay. For instance, if hypothetically a rock were placed in some unimaginably safe place, prevented from the process of erosion, prevented from being consumed by supernovas, or black holes, etc. and just sat in said place indefinately...is [tex]10^{10}^{26}[/tex] - [tex]10^{10}^{76}[/tex] how long it would take to decay?
 
Kevin_Axion said:
In approximately [tex]10^{10}^{26}[/tex] - [tex]10^{10}^{76}[/tex] years from now, quantum tunneling effects will cause iron stars to collapse into neutron stars or black holes. The black holes then decay through Hawking Radiation.
That would seem to be longer than the lifetimes of the nucleons (by quite a stretch), and thus unlikely to happen in practice.