Exact solution of a 4th order DE

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter DarkLord777
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the exact solution to a fourth-order differential equation of the form u'''' + 5u = f, subject to specific boundary conditions. Participants explore both the homogeneous and particular solutions, as well as the implications of the boundary conditions on the overall solution.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a general form for the homogeneous solution involving exponential and trigonometric functions, suggesting constants A, B, C, and D.
  • Another participant suggests that u = f/5 could serve as a particular solution.
  • There is a discussion about whether the particular solution must satisfy the boundary conditions, with some participants affirming that it should.
  • A participant mentions the superposition principle, indicating that the final solution can be a sum of the homogeneous solution and a particular solution, with each term potentially satisfying different conditions.
  • One participant shares their experience using Mathematica to set up the equations and solve for the constants, while another expresses frustration with using Wolfram Alpha, noting difficulties in solving the system with all boundary conditions.
  • Concerns are raised about the accuracy of solutions obtained through computational tools, with one participant mentioning discrepancies with results from their finite element program.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the approach to solving the differential equation but express differing opinions on the specifics of the boundary conditions and the effectiveness of computational tools. There is no consensus on the exact solution or the best method to achieve it.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of the problem, particularly in relation to the boundary conditions and the potential for multiple solutions or approaches. There are unresolved issues regarding the exact nature of the particular solution and its compliance with the boundary conditions.

DarkLord777
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Hi guys,

I am trying to find the exact solution of:

u'''' + 5u =f on (0,1) f is a constant >0

where

u(0)=u'(0) =0
u''(1) =k constant >0
u'''(1)=0

I assumed I should look at solving the homogeneous equation and got the following

uh = A*exp(Zx)*sin(Zx) + B*exp(ZX)*cos(Zx) + C*exp(-Zx)*sin(Zx) +D*exp(-Zx)*cos(Zx)

Where Z is (sqrt(2)/2)*sqrt(sqrt(5)) and A,B,C,D are constants.

My questions are:

1) Am I on the right track
2) How would I go about solving for the particular solution
3) Does the exact solution actually exist?

Thanks
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Just by inspection, u=f/5 is a particular solution right?
 
surely the particular solution must satisfy the boundary conditions?
 
You are on the right track and the problem is well posed.
^depends how particular

The solution of the equation can be written as a sum by the superposition principle. The final answer needs to satisfy the differential equation and the boundary conditions (and is a particular solution. The terms we are adding up need not satisfy all (or any) of the conditions. Just let each term satisfy certain conditions and keep track that the sum will satisfy all conditions.

basically either take
u = A*exp(Zx)*sin(Zx) + B*exp(ZX)*cos(Zx) + C*exp(-Zx)*sin(Zx) +D*exp(-Zx)*cos(Zx) +f/5
and fit the boundary conditions or take
u = A*exp(Zx)*sin(Zx) + B*exp(ZX)*cos(Zx) + C*exp(-Zx)*sin(Zx) +D*exp(-Zx)*cos(Zx) +E
and fit the boundary conditions and u'''' + 5u =f

It is the same in the end
 
What did we do before Mathematica?

Code:
z = (Sqrt[2]/2)*Sqrt[Sqrt[5]]; 

u[x_] := a*Exp[z*x]*Sin[z*x] + b*Exp[z*x]*Cos[z*x] + c*Exp[(-z)*x]*Sin[z*x] + d*Exp[(-z)*x]*Cos[z*x]+f/5; 

myequations = {0 == u[0], 0 == Derivative[1][u][0], k == Derivative[2][u][1], 0 == Derivative[3][u][1]}

Solve[myequations, {a, b, c, d}]
 
Hmmm and if I don't have mathematica?

I tried wolfram alpha but it can't solve it with all 4 boundary conditions.
If I only use 2 I end up with a massive equation (18+ terms) that I still have to solve for 2 constants.

I tried solving it by hand from scratch and get the wrong answer. (well wrong according to my finite element program - and I know it is correct!)
 
wolfram alpha can be wonky but I entered

u''''(x) + 5u(x) =f;u(0)=0,u'(0)=0,u''(1)=k,u'''(1)=0

and got a reasonable answer
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
5K