Examples of Separation Axioms

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around examples of separation axioms in topology, specifically focusing on providing examples of spaces and functions that satisfy or do not satisfy various separation properties. The scope includes theoretical exploration and homework-related inquiries.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes an example of a space X = R and a subspace A = R - Q, questioning its validity in demonstrating that X satisfies separation axiom Sep while A does not.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on the term "separation," suggesting that various Tychonoff properties could be considered under this umbrella.
  • A participant defines the separation axioms, indicating that Sep refers to the existence of a countable dense set, S1 to the existence of a countable basis at a point, and S2 to the existence of a countable basis for the topology.
  • One participant challenges the first example, stating that the irrationals form a separable subspace of R, implying that the proposed example does not work unless derived from a non-metrizable topology.
  • There is a request for clarification regarding the topology assigned to Y in the second example.
  • A suggestion is made for the third example, proposing to use X = Y with different topologies, one finer than the other, and considering the identity function as a potential continuous and onto function.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the validity of the first example, with some asserting that it does not meet the criteria due to the properties of the irrationals. There is no consensus on the examples provided, and multiple competing views remain regarding the separation axioms.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the potential misunderstanding of the separation properties and the need for clarification on the topologies involved in the examples. The discussion also reflects uncertainty about the applicability of the proposed examples in demonstrating the separation axioms.

MathematicalPhysicist
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My assignment is like this:
1.give an example of a space X and a subspace A of X s.t X satisifes Sep and A doesnt.
2.give an example of a continuous and onto function f:X->Y s.t X satisifies S1 but Y doesnt.
3.give an example of a continuous and onto function f:X->Y s.t X satisfies S2 and Y doesnt.

my answers are as follows:
1. X=R A=R-Q, is it a good example?
2.X=N, Y=N-{0}U{sqrt2} and f:X->Y f(x)=x if x in N-{0} and f(x)=sqrt2 if x=0, i think we can't find a countable set of bases for Y, not sure though.
3. didn't do it so far, any hints?
 
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First, what do you mean by "separation"? I would consider all of the "Tychonoff" properties to be "separation" properties: T0: each singleton set is closed; T1: given any two points, there exist a set that contains one of them but not the other; T2 (Hausdorf): Given any two points there exist two disjoint open set such that one contains one point and the other set contains the other point.
 
Sep says there's a countable dense set.
S1 says there's a countable basis at a point.
S2 says there's a countable basis for the topology.

those should be the countability axioms, sorry for misleading.
 
"1." isn't good. The irrationals are actually a separable subspace of R (in the usual topology). In fact, if X is a separable metric space, then any subspace of X is separable as well. So your example is going to have to come from a non-metrizable topology.

For 2, what topology are you giving Y?

For 3, I would think about using X=Y, but giving it two topologies, one finer than the other. Then maybe using f=identity.
 

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