Exhibiting a homomorphism f: G-> Aut(G)

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter AdrianZ
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of a map defined as f(g)(h) = ghg-1 and its classification as a homomorphism from the group G to Aut(G). Participants explore the implications of this mapping, particularly whether ghg-1 is an element of Aut(G) and how the notation is interpreted.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the notation f(g)(h) and questions whether ghg-1 is an element of Aut(G).
  • Another participant asserts that f_g(h) = ghg-1 is an automorphism and that it maps elements of G to elements of G, suggesting that it is clear due to the closure of the group under its operation.
  • A later reply confirms that ghg-1 is indeed an automorphism and states that f is a group homomorphism.
  • Some participants argue that ghg-1 is an element of G, not Aut(G), while clarifying that the map f_g is in Aut(G) and that f is the homomorphism from G to Aut(G).
  • One participant acknowledges a misunderstanding stemming from an earlier misinterpretation of the problem, which contributed to their confusion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is disagreement regarding whether ghg-1 is an element of Aut(G) or just G. Some participants assert it is an automorphism, while others maintain it is not part of Aut(G). The discussion remains unresolved on this point.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of notation and the definitions of mappings, which may lead to confusion. The discussion reflects a need for clarity in distinguishing between elements of G and Aut(G).

AdrianZ
Messages
318
Reaction score
0
I'm watching Harvard's abstract algebra course online and the professor says that the map f(g)(h)=ghg-1 is a homomorphism between the groups G and Aut(G). the thing that I don't understand is that whether ghg-1 is an element of Aut(G) or not. It must be an element of Aut(G) because It's in the image of f but I can't figure out how it is an element of Aut(G). Can someone clarify what f(g)(h) means at the first place? if h is the input, then what is f(g)? Is f(g)(h) the same thing as fog(h)? Shouldn't our input be from G and our output in Aut(G)? so if h is in G, Is ghg-1 an automorphism on the group G under its operation? I'm confused :confused:
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Do you agree that f_g(h)= ghg^{-1} (I prefer that notation so we don't get "g" and "h" confused) is "auto"- that is, that it maps amember of the group to a member of the group? That should be clear because the group is closed under the group operation.

So the only thing left to prove is that it is a homomorphism: that is, that f_g(hk)= f_g(h)f_g(k).

Okay, f_g(h)f_g(k)= (ghg^{-1})(gkg^{-1}). What does that reduce to?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
well, I think the main confusion was about the notation he had used. so, ghg-1 is indeed an automorphism therefore it's in Aut(G). now It's clear that f is a group homomorphism. Thanks for the help HallsofIvy.
 
AdrianZ said:
so, ghg-1 is indeed an automorphism therefore it's in Aut(G).

No, it's not. ghg^{-1} is an element of G, not of Aut(G).
The map

f_g:G\rightarrow G:h\rightarrow ghg^{-1}

is in Aut(G). And the map

f:G\rightarrow Aut(G):g\rightarrow f_g

is the homomorphism.
 
micromass said:
No, it's not. ghg^{-1} is an element of G, not of Aut(G).
The map

f_g:G\rightarrow G:h\rightarrow ghg^{-1}

is in Aut(G). And the map

f:G\rightarrow Aut(G):g\rightarrow f_g

is the homomorphism.

Yea, I meant the same thing. Thanks for pointing out the slight difference in the way I had phrased my sentence. I meant ghg-1 defines a set theoretic automorphism on G (It's one-to-one and onto) and fg (the function defined by that relation) satisfies fg(h.h')=fg(h) . fg(h').
Now as you said, the map f:G\rightarrow Aut(G):g\rightarrow f_g is a homomorphism because we have: fg.g'(h)=(g.g').h.(g.g')-1=(g.g').h.(g')-1g-1=g(g'h(g')-1)g-1=g(fg'(h))g-1=fg(fg'(h))=fgofg'(h).

the thing is that Benedict Gross first misinterpreted the problem, so I too got confused what he was talking about and lost the path we were following.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
4K
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
3K