Existence of solution to Poisson's equation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the existence of solutions to Poisson's equation, particularly in the context of vector potentials and gauge shifts in electrodynamics. Participants explore the implications of boundary conditions, the decay of functions, and the construction of solutions under various assumptions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to justify the divergence of a gauge-shifted vector potential and relates this to proving that Poisson's equation has a solution for arbitrary source terms.
  • Another participant questions whether a system of equations can be solved under certain conditions, specifically regarding the curl of a vector field and its implications for the Poisson equation.
  • A later reply discusses an informal construction of a solution to Poisson's equation without boundary conditions, highlighting potential issues with pathological source terms.
  • Participants reference a Wikipedia article that provides a solution for a function that decays adequately, but there is concern about the convergence of integrals depending on the decay rate of the source term.
  • There is a contention regarding the adequacy of the solution provided in the Wikipedia article, with one participant noting that it may not apply to all cases due to the decay requirements of the source term.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the existence and construction of solutions to Poisson's equation, particularly regarding the role of boundary conditions and the behavior of source terms. No consensus is reached on the adequacy of the proposed solutions or the conditions under which they hold.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of specified boundary conditions and the dependence on the decay behavior of source terms, which remains unresolved in the discussion.

Manchot
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I'm reteaching electrodynamics to myself on a more rigorous footing, and I'm trying to prove to myself that setting the divergence of the vector potential is justified using a gauge shift. I could use the Helmholtz theorem to do this, but the problem with this from my perspective is that I haven't actually justified the full version of the theorem, only the weaker version which requires that a vector function decay to zero faster than 1/r at infinity. This isn't a problem for the field quantities (since all physical fields decay like 1/r^2); nevertheless, they do pose a problem for the potential quantities (which in general will not even decay). Basically, given a vector potential [tex]\vec{A}[/tex], I want to show that fixing the divergence of the gauge-shifted potential [tex]\vec{A}\prime[/tex] to some scalar function [tex]D[/tex] is equivalent to adding the gradient of some some scalar function [tex]\phi[/tex].

[tex]\nabla \cdot \vec{A}' = D[/tex]
[tex]\nabla \cdot (\vec{A} + \nabla \phi) = D[/tex]
[tex]{\nabla}^2 \phi = D - \nabla \cdot \vec{A}[/tex]

Since the right-hand side is just some function of position, proving that the divergence can be adjusted by adding the gradient of a scalar amounts to proving that Poisson's equation has a solution for an arbitrary source term. No boundary conditions are specified, so I would expect that there are actually an infinite number of solutions; however, I cannot prove this. Does anyone have any insights? Thanks.
 
Last edited:
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Can we solve this system of equations?

[tex]\nabla \cdot \mathbf{X} = \theta[/tex]
[tex]\nabla \times \mathbf{X} = 0[/tex]

If we know [itex]\nabla \times \mathbf{V} = 0[/itex], can we solve this equation?

[tex]\nabla \varphi = \mathbf{V}[/tex]

If so, then we can chain these results to solve the Poisson equation.

[tex]\nabla^2 \varphi = \theta[/tex]

If you know a counterexample to one of the above questions, I suspect you could use it to construct a Poisson equation without a solution.
 
Thanks for the response, Hurkyl. I've been thinking about it some more, and I've been able to informally construct a solution to the equation, but I'm still not quite satisfied. Since there are no boundary conditions specified, and I'm just trying to construct any solution, I arbitrarily specified that

[tex]\phi (x=0) = \frac{\partial \phi}{\partial x} = 0[/tex]

It would then seem to me that if you numerically integrated with a small enough dx, you could construct phi as follows:

[tex]\phi (x+dx,y,z) = \phi (x,y,z) + \frac{\partial \phi}{\partial x} (x,y,z) \cdot dx[/tex]

[tex]\frac{\partial \phi}{\partial x} (x+dx,y,z) = \frac{\partial \phi}{\partial x} (x,y,z) + \frac{{\partial}^2\phi}{\partial {x}^2} (x,y,z) \cdot dx[/tex]

[tex]= \frac{\partial \phi}{\partial x} (x,y,z) + (f(x,y,z) - \frac{{\partial}^2\phi}{\partial {y}^2}- \frac{{\partial}^2\phi}{\partial {z}^2}) \cdot dx[/tex]

(f(x,y,z) is the source term.) Obviously, this method fails for some source terms, like the pathological sin(1/x) or any function which blows up, but other than those cases, it seems to be pretty solid. I've tried to "un-discretize" the construction to form integrals, but the expression gets pretty messy quickly. Could anyone explain how to to it a little more formally, since I'm still not convinced?
 
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Hurkyl said:
Wikipedia gives a solution for a function that decays adequately:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screened_Poisson_equation
Yeah, but AFAIK, the problem with that solution is that the integral will only converge if the source term decays faster than 1/r^2, which is not in general the case when dealing with potentials.
 

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