Explain Integration to me, please

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Alienspecimen
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Explain Integration
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the physical meaning of integration in real-world contexts, particularly in relation to electrical signals, water levels, and actuator movements. Participants seek to clarify how integration applies to these scenarios and what quantities are represented by the integral in each case.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes integration as calculating the area under a curve and seeks to understand its real-world implications through specific examples involving voltage, water levels, and actuator speeds.
  • Another participant suggests using dimensional analysis to interpret the area under the curve, providing examples of how different units can lead to different physical interpretations, such as work in joules.
  • A participant humorously points out that integration is essential for power companies to determine monthly charges based on electricity usage.
  • One contributor explains that integration can be viewed as a continuous counterpart to summation and an inverse operation to differentiation, mentioning relationships between current, charge, force, and momentum.
  • Another participant elaborates on how electric and water meters function similarly, noting that while meter readers do not need calculus, the underlying processes involve integration to calculate energy consumption.
  • A participant clarifies that the integral of the water level function represents total "volume-seconds" and that the indefinite integral relates to the displacement of an actuator over time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various interpretations of integration's physical meaning, with some agreeing on the utility of dimensional analysis and others providing differing views on how integration applies to specific examples. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise interpretations of integration in the contexts provided.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the functions representing the scenarios are not explicitly stated, and there are unresolved mathematical steps in relating integration to the physical quantities discussed.

Alienspecimen
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Hi all,

I understand what the integral does - it calculates the area under a curve and can easily see how it could be used to calculate an area of land. What I do not understand is really the physical meaning when it comes to the real world. Here are some examples:

1. A set of data representing the change of the voltage of an electrical signal with time. From the data we find that the change with time follows a pattern that could be described by a mathematical function. I do understand that every point on the curve once that function is plotted represents a measure of the voltage at that particular instance. If I were to take the integral of the function either throughout the entire interval when the voltage was recorded, or just a sub-interval, what did I just calculate/quantify?

2. I have a large container full of water. The level of the water changes with time. Eventually, just as in the example above, I am able to find a pattern and describe the change of water level with time with a function. Each point of the graph represents the level of the water in the tank at that particular time. If I took the integral of the function, what did I calculate?

3. An actuator moves in a straight line. At the starting point the actuator starts moving at certain speed V, but as it moves, its speed gradually decreases and it finally stops once fully extended. As with the previous two examples, V with respect to time could be described with a function. What does the integral of the function represent?

Can you please help me relate integration to real world problems?

Thanks in advance.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
This is where dimensional analysis can come into play to help you interpret the area under the curve:

- if the x is in meters (##L##) and the y is in meters (##L##), then the area is meters^2 ( ##L^2##)
- if the x is in meters (length) and the y is in newtons (##ML / T^{-2}##), then the area is joules ( ##ML^2 / T^{-2} ## ), which is work

In your cases, try using dimensional analysis to see if it makes sense. Here's a video on the topic

 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: OmCheeto, vanhees71, Klystron and 4 others
Alienspecimen said:
Can you please help me relate integration to real world problems?
Without integration, how would your power company know how much to charge you each month...? :wink:

Hydro_quebec_meter.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_meter
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71
Alienspecimen said:
I understand what the integral does - it calculates the area under a curve and can easily see how it could be used to calculate an area of land.
An integral can be thought of as the continuous counterpart to a summation, which is an operation performed on discrete quantities. It can also be thought of as an inverse operation to differentiation. Some physical properties are the derivatives of other physical properties. For example, current i is the time rate of change of charge q. I.e. ##i(t) = \frac{dq}{dt}##. Also force F is the time rate of change of momentum p -- ##F = \frac{dp}{dt}##. You can use integration to write the inverse relationships here.

Calculating an area is only one of many possible applications of integrals. Other applications include the probabilities of continuous distributions and calculations of work done, and many more. Most calculus textbooks provide lots of examples of "real world" applications of integration.

berkeman said:
Without integration, how would your power company know how much to charge you each month...? :wink:
My electric meter works in a way that is similar to how my water meter works. As the water flows past the meter, the water causes vanes to rotate that are connected to gears that count the number of rotations. The more water used, the faster the vanes turn. I'm reasonably sure the electric meter works about the same way -- the more current flows past the equivalent of vanes in a water meter, the faster the numbers increase.
The meter reader doesn't need to use calculus at all to report electricity usage. :oldbiggrin:
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71, malawi_glenn and Alienspecimen
Mark44 said:
My electric meter works in a way that is similar to how my water meter works. As the water flows past the meter, the water causes vanes to rotate that are connected to gears that count the number of rotations. The more water used, the faster the vanes turn. I'm reasonably sure the electric meter works about the same way -- the more current flows past the equivalent of vanes in a water meter, the faster the numbers increase.
The meter reader doesn't need to use calculus at all to report electricity usage.
Yeah, the older ones like I showed in the photo work like that, but it's still a form of integration. And the more modern meters that I've worked on digitize the voltage and current to calculate power as a function of time, and integrate that to get kWhr energy consumption. :smile:
 
Alienspecimen said:
Each point of the graph represents the level of the water in the tank at that particular time. If I took the integral of the function, what did I calculate?
The total "volume-seconds" occupied by the water over the interval. If you divide by the length of the interval in seconds, you can calculate the average volume of the tank.
Alienspecimen said:
As with the previous two examples, V with respect to time could be described with a function. What does the integral of the function represent?
The displacement. Specifically, the indefinite integral would be a function that takes as an input some time and whose output represents how far the actuator extended from t=0 to the time in question. The definite integral over some interval of time would be how far the actuator extended during that time interval
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Alienspecimen

Similar threads

  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 49 ·
2
Replies
49
Views
7K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K