Explaining Electroweak Theory Decomposition to a Beginner

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter noahcharris
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    gauge theory groups
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the decomposition of electroweak theory into the product of groups U(1) and SU(2). Participants explore the implications of this representation, its mathematical foundations, and its physical significance, particularly in relation to electromagnetism and gauge theory. The conversation includes both theoretical and conceptual aspects, aimed at clarifying the topic for a beginner.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on the concept of electroweak theory as a decomposition into U(1) and SU(2), expressing a rudimentary understanding of group and gauge theory.
  • Another participant suggests that the "X" in U(1) x SU(2) likely denotes the direct product of groups and points to a Wikipedia link for further reading.
  • A participant explains that the electroweak theory can be viewed as a generalization of electromagnetism, involving concepts from differential geometry and principal bundles, where the electromagnetic tensor relates to curvature.
  • There is mention of the Yang-Mills Lagrangian in the context of gauge theory, with a note that the quantization of the theory complicates its physical interpretation.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about why U(1) x SU(2) is appropriate for electroweak forces, suggesting that its justification may stem from experimental validation rather than a deeper theoretical understanding.
  • It is noted that the U(1) in the product does not correspond to the U(1) of the electromagnetic force, but rather represents a different copy within the product structure.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints and uncertainties regarding the interpretation and implications of the U(1) x SU(2) decomposition. No consensus is reached on the deeper justification for this representation or its physical significance.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the participants' varying levels of understanding of group theory and gauge theory, as well as the complexity of quantizing the theory, which remains unresolved in the discussion.

noahcharris
Messages
21
Reaction score
0
I have come across physicists representing electroweak theory as some kind of decomposition (i.e. U(1)xSU(2)). I was wondering if someone could explain this 'crossing' to me a little further. Fair warning, my understanding of group/gauge theory is v rudimentary at this point.
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Thanks for the post! Sorry you aren't generating responses at the moment. Do you have any further information, come to any new conclusions or is it possible to reword the post?
 
The physics idea can be thought of as a generalization of electromagnetism. You can describe how electrons interact with electromagnetic fields by re-interpreting the vector potential in terms of the theory of connections on principal bundles, in this case U(1)-bundles, and that can be generalized to groups besides U(1), which leads to non-Abelian gauge theory. It turns out that the electromagnetic tensor can be thought of as a kind of curvature. If you study differential geometry, you learn that you can push around vectors on a surface by parallel transporting them, and that curvature measures the path-dependency of where the vectors end up if you push them along from point a to point b. With principal bundles, this is generalized to things other than vectors, like group elements. The Yang-Mills Lagrangian of the standard model is built out of this sort of generalized curvature. This is all fine for mathematicians, like myself, but the actual physics version generally makes our heads explode because you have to quantize the theory and it gets kind of ridiculous. In a lot of the math side of gauge theory, you end up just using the classical field theory and study the critical points of the action to come up with really weird mathematical facts.

I have no idea why U(1) x SU(2) turns out to be appropriate for electroweak forces, but I can give the somewhat trite answer that it's justified by experiment (and I think that may even turn out to be the "official explanation" by physicists to some degree--I'm not sure how deep of a justification there is beyond that it works).

The cross product is a fairly simple construction where you just take one group and put it in the first slot and the second group in the second slot and just think of it as a group where each slot acts the same way it normally does. It's interesting that such a simple construction, involving two very basic groups, like U(1) and SU(2) (aka a circle and the unit quaternions, respectively) would turn out to be the key to describing two of the fundamental forces of nature. Another interesting point from a physics point of view is that, contrary to what you might expect, the U(1) in the product turns out not to correspond to the U(1) of the electomagnetic force--it's actually a different copy of U(1) that lives inside the product. Or at least that's what physicists tell me.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
6K
  • · Replies 61 ·
3
Replies
61
Views
10K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
5K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
5K
  • · Replies 78 ·
3
Replies
78
Views
7K
  • · Replies 87 ·
3
Replies
87
Views
9K