Face of face of a cone is a face. Proof?

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    Cone Proof
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around proving that the face of a face of a convex polyhedral cone is again a face of that polyhedral cone. Participants explore the validity of a proof they encountered, express confusion over certain mathematical notations, and share insights on the proof's readability and correctness.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in showing that the face of a face of a convex polyhedral cone is again a face, questioning the validity of a provided proof.
  • Another participant points out issues with the readability of the proof, noting that some elements do not render correctly and that the meaning of variables appears to be flipped.
  • A participant asserts that the non-negativity of certain inner products follows from the positions of the vectors in relation to the cones, suggesting that if the sum of two non-negative quantities equals zero, both must be zero.
  • Another participant questions the assumption that a certain variable is non-negative, seeking clarification on the notation used.
  • A later reply clarifies that the notation \(\mathbb{R}_+\) indeed refers to positive reals.
  • One participant mentions they found a solution independently and shares a link to their work, indicating they resolved the issue outside of the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the validity of the original proof, and multiple viewpoints regarding the interpretation of the proof and its components remain present throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unclear mathematical notation, potential misinterpretations of variables, and unresolved assumptions regarding the properties of the vectors involved in the proof.

Silversonic
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I could really do with some help. I'm trying to show that the face of a face of a convex polyhedral cone is again a face of that polyhedral cone. I have spent a couple hours thinking about this and CAN'T show it. The following apparently gives a proof of this, but it's surely invalid

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/4752/vsqc.png

The bit I have underlined. I can see literally no reason why [itex]\langle u, v \rangle \geq 0[/itex] would mean that [itex]\langle u, v \rangle = 0[/itex]. Can anyone help?
 
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This text is really hard to read because some stuff doesn't render or is mis type-setted, and they flip the meaning of v and w in the proof of 3. I believe the claim is using that v is contained in [itex]\check{\sigma}[/itex].

We know that [itex]\left<v,w \right>[/itex] is non-negative because v is in [itex]\check{sigma}[/itex] and w is in [itex]\sigma[/itex]. Furthermore, p is non-negativve and [itex]\left<u,w \right>[/itex] is non-negative as well (for the same reason as [itex]\left<v,w\right>[/itex]. So we are adding two non-negative things together and getting zero. The only way this can occur is if both non-negative things were zero to begin with.
 
I would also try to answer that, but why is p non negative? except for if [itex]R_{+}[/itex] notation means positive reals... I interpreted it at first as the real numbers supplied by the action of summation.

in the 2nd (3) and 2nd - it confused me more about it
 
Chris, [itex]\mathbb{R}_+[/itex] does mean positive reals.
 
Thanks for the replies, yeah I noticed the text was quite hard to read but it was the only proof I could find after a long search on google.

I have actually figured it out (after harder searching) and did it before I saw this thread. I've attached in case anyone wants a look.

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/4387/2x7r.png
 
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