Famous astronaut: - Aliens are visiting us?

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SUMMARY

The forum discussion centers on the claims made by astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell regarding extraterrestrial visits and government conspiracies. Participants express skepticism about Mitchell's credibility, labeling him a "nutcase" while acknowledging the lack of definitive evidence for or against alien existence. The conversation highlights the distinction between anecdotal evidence for UFOs and the absence of scientific proof for alien life. Ultimately, the discussion concludes that while UFOs are documented, the leap to believing in extraterrestrial visitors remains unsubstantiated.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of UFO phenomena and terminology
  • Familiarity with anecdotal versus scientific evidence
  • Knowledge of government conspiracy theories related to extraterrestrial life
  • Awareness of notable figures in the UFO community, such as Dr. Edgar Mitchell
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the French COMETA report on extraterrestrial life
  • Explore the differences between anecdotal evidence and scientific evidence in the context of UFOs
  • Investigate documented military encounters with unidentified flying objects
  • Study the psychological and sociological factors influencing belief in aliens and UFOs
USEFUL FOR

This discussion is beneficial for skeptics, UFO enthusiasts, researchers in the field of extraterrestrial studies, and anyone interested in the intersection of science and conspiracy theories related to alien life.

  • #61
Proton Soup said:
i'm not confusing a thing. i didn't say axioms were data, i said data were things that are not axioms, that is, "everything else".

now, any time you make an observation, you're relying on your senses. even the things we can't sense directly are sensed indirectly with tools that were forged by humans all the way up the chain. everything we "know" about the universe is fundamentally based on how our bodies interact with it. in the end, all those facts are perceptions. we can all agree that most of us perceive the same thing most of the time, but that's as good as it will ever be.

Again, empirical sciences don't have axioms. Data are quantifications of observations. A leaking faucet is not an axiom and is not a datum, it is a fact. If you measure the rate of flow of the faucet, this is a datum.
 
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  • #62
CEL said:
Again, empirical sciences don't have axioms. Data are quantifications of observations. A leaking faucet is not an axiom and is not a datum, it is a fact. If you measure the rate of flow of the faucet, this is a datum.

all faucets leak.
 
  • #63
Proton Soup said:
all faucets leak.

If this is true, it is a fact, not an axiom.
 
  • #64
CEL said:
If this is true, it is a fact, not an axiom.

well, that's not really what i was getting at, but simply to point out that we are not seeing the problem the same way. i think it's unlikely that any faucets don't leak, but rather it's a matter of how fast they leak. faucets that leak at extremely slow rates simply do not appear to leak because of evaporation.

and this is part of why axioms and mathematics matter here. the way you and i view things depends on the logic we use. that reasoning is mathematics. and that mathematics is based on our assumptions, or axioms. now, if you wish to say something is a fact, that is a value that you've placed on a piece of data, a conclusion you've come to. you're applying logic to data. your facts are based on your assumptions, and no one else's.
 
  • #65
Something may be a fact, but if it can't be peer reviewed, it is only a fact to you. This is the same problem had by people who honestly report UFOs, or ghosts, or anything that they don't understand and that can't be replicated on demand. We know that people could come from all over the world and confirm that you have a leaky pipe. But if all that I have is your word, then it is just another leaky pipe story. How do I know if it's a fact or not?
 
  • #66
When I read a report on an UFO siting, I like to read it as reported. It may be a load of old rubbish, or delusion, but it may also be true. At that time, I do not need to apply scientific proofing.

Let's take an established science, one that has passed all of the tests, and is an undisputed science. Meteorology.

So what is the weather going to be like tomorrow? Nobody really knows if it is going to rain. One TV channel tells us that it will be 'sunny with perhaps the occasional shower' while the other side tells us it will be 'intermittent showers with the occasional bright spell.' I am surprised that there are enough English words to juggle around so that whatever happens, they can say, 'We were right.'

Despite the fact that almost all of the weather reporting and forecasting comes from Bracknell, with their 200 million pounds computing equipment, all the meteorologists can tell us is (a) what the weather is right now, and (b) what will probably happen tomorrow - but no guarantees.

One of the purposes of this science called meteorology is to forecast - and it cannot do it with any degree of accuracy. ...so, is meteorology a science at all?