Fermi energy approximation for white dwarfs

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Fermi energy approximation in the context of white dwarfs, exploring the assumptions made regarding electron behavior at low temperatures compared to the Fermi temperature, the implications of degeneracy pressure, and the sources of heat in these stellar remnants.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the assumption of zero temperature for electrons in white dwarfs is due to the high degeneracy, allowing electrons to occupy ground states without significant thermal motion.
  • Others propose that degeneracy pressure restricts electron movement, leading to a state where the mean kinetic energy is effectively zero, thus implying a zero temperature for the electrons.
  • One participant questions whether the white dwarf behaves like a solid with energy bands instead of discrete energy levels, linking this to its white appearance due to blackbody radiation.
  • There is a discussion about the source of heat in white dwarfs, with some participants noting that fusion has ceased, yet these stars remain hot initially and take a long time to cool down.
  • Another participant raises the point that relativistic effects become significant when the Fermi energy is much greater than the rest mass energy of electrons, suggesting this relates to the high velocities of particles.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of degeneracy pressure and the nature of heat production in white dwarfs. There is no consensus on the exact mechanisms or assumptions regarding electron behavior and temperature.

Contextual Notes

Some claims about the relationship between degeneracy pressure and electron states, as well as the nature of heat production, depend on specific definitions and assumptions that are not fully resolved in the discussion.

Guffie
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Hello,

I have read several articles/websites which talk about modelling white dwarfs,

In all of these papers they state that it can be assumed the electrons have temperature zero, i.e.
T<<T_fermi.

I haven't been able to find a solid explanation of why this is approximation is possible,

Is it due to the huge degeneracies in these stars which means that each of the electrons can reside in a ground state -> so their temperature can be considered as zero?

I just think its strange that this assumption is possible considering the actual temperature of these stars is enormous.

While I'm asking about things of this topic, I have also seen people state when E_fermi>>m_e c^2 relativistic effects become important. Is this because it implies the particles are moving very quickly?
 
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I believe it is due to the degeneracy pressure not allowing electrons movement. I just had a thought would the white dwarf act as a solid as such where it has energy bands instead of energy levels? is this why it glows white?
 
Johnahh said:
I believe it is due to the degeneracy pressure not allowing electrons movement. I just had a thought would the white dwarf act as a solid as such where it has energy bands instead of energy levels? is this why it glows white?

Rather ironically, it glows white because of blackbody radiation. It's hot enough that the details of energy levels of the particles in the star don't make much difference. So it produces a spectrum that does not favor any particular frequency, nor have any missing frequencies. And so, it looks white.

Assuming it is white. If the temperature is too high or too low such that the peak of the blackbody curve is not in visible, it can look non-white. Colder looks red, hotter looks blue or violet.
 
where is the heat being produced in a white dwarf? I was under the assumption fusion had stopped.
 
Hrm,

So your saying that, as there are a large number of degeneracies in white dwarfs, due to the pauli exclusion principle each electron is somewhat stuck in it's state as neighbouring levels are occupied, so the electrons are essentially at rest? So the mean kinetic energy is zero and hence the temperature associated to the electrons is zero?
 
Johnahh said:
where is the heat being produced in a white dwarf? I was under the assumption fusion had stopped.

There is little or no heat being produced in white dwarfs. They do however start out very hot (up to 40000 K) and are very compact so it takes them trillions of years to cool down completely.
 

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